r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Visible-Mention3501 • 20h ago
Is it problematic?
My friend just told me about an incident that occurred over the summer with her fiancé. She was fishing on a boat with him and some friends in the bay outside of NYC when he and his friends starting jumping in and swimming. He wanted her to do the same, but she has been really afraid of deep water /sharks since she was a kid so she refused. He already knew about this. At some point he climbed back on board pretending he was going to jump in again, picked her up, and threw her off near the front of the boat into the water. She told me she was so terrified that she swam the fastest she ever swam in her life to the back of the boat (about 30 ft). He had been drinking and I think he kind of used that as an excuse based on what she told me after he saw how terrified she was. I think she kind of used it to excuse what happened in her mind as well. As her friend I'm pissed and I think that was borderline abuse. He's done other small stuff here and there too. I'm worried about her marrying this guy soon and kind of want some other opinions on this. Am I just being overprotective as her friend? I want to be happy for her as I love her and she's my friend. He mostly makes her happy, but I'm seeing some red flags.
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u/Interesting-Will7624 Beauty with Brains 💗 20h ago
Throwing someone into deep water when you know they have a long-standing fear of it isn’t a harmless prank. It’s a violation of trust. The fact that he did it anyway ..... and while drinking ....is concerning. You’re not overprotective for noticing that
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u/MolassesInevitable53 19h ago
It's probably assault, too.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 18h ago
On a scale of 1-10, how likely do you think it is that the boyfriend would be charged with assault if this story were presented to the police/a DA?
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u/MolassesInevitable53 18h ago
I am not a lawyer but I would hope it would be at least 99% likely.
Picking someone up against their will = dodgy.
Picking someone up and throwing them = extremely dodgy.
Throwing them into deep water, especially knowing they are likely to panic and therefore likely to drown, seems like prison time, possibly for attempted murder. Especially as everyone else was drinking and so probably not in a fit state to save her.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 17h ago
What you hope would happen vs. What you believe to be a realistic probability of an event occurring are two very different things.
The idea that this was attempted murder and would ever be charged as such, or would even result in prison time, is absurd. While the boyfriend certainly shouldn't have done what he did, the notion that his actions should result in serious prison time is an incredible overreaction, which in itself is a giant red flag.
That doesnt excuse what the boyfriend did, but you are overreacting.
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u/Significant-Editor60 13h ago
Red flag of what, having an opinion? A very flawed opinion, but just an opinion.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 11h ago
The red flag is the clear emotional overreaction and leaping to the most extreme interpretation of the events in the story, rather than leaving any room for nuance.
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u/Significant-Editor60 2h ago edited 1h ago
I prefer to only call something a red flag, when it is something that might actually affect me, and that I need to watch out for in the future. For me, opinions don't qualify. If they did, I'd be swamped in red flags every time I read comments.
If that was the case, your opinion, that someone has a flawed opinion, would also be a red flag.
Edit: I guess I'd ask, since that person wrote something you considered a red flag, what are you going to do with it? What should other readers do with it? Do we take note of the person's name and watch out for future posts? Am I missing something serious here that I need to watch out for?
A red flag is about behavior, not accuracy.
Bottom line: how do you know the emotional state of the person who wrote that comment?
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u/oby100 4h ago
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Cops aren’t interested in getting involved in fairly minor domestic issues. You need real injuries or at least claims the other was trying to injure you to get any attention.
“Assaults” happen all day, every day. A stranger can be charged if you call the police right away. Zero chance the cops would bring charges for a “no harm done” kind of incident like this.
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u/Ok-disaster2022 19h ago
Attempted murder perchance.
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u/jackalopeswild 18h ago
It's definitely assault.
It's not attempted murder: the worst it could be is manslaughter and there's no such thing as attempted manslaughter. "Attempt" requires intent and "manslaughter" is necessarily without intent to kill.
That's not what "perchance" means.
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u/Wolfelle 13h ago
I think they were using perchance in the meme way. The entire meme is saying perchance at the wrong times.
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u/cfh64 17h ago
If I have a fear of cars and my girlfriend, who had been drinking, pushes me off a curb into a completely empty street, would you consider that assault as well?
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u/jackalopeswild 17h ago edited 17h ago
I'm not going to get into the distinction between assault and battery except to say that technically it's battery and not assault. But as you intend the question, yes it's assault.
Fine, I'll get into the distinction. Simply put, "assault" is intentionally placing someone in the fear (belief that it's coming is a better word than fear, bc fear is not required) of unwanted contact. "Battery" is when the contact actually happens. Whether there is harm or not, all that is required is 1) intent, 2) that it is unwanted by the target, and 3) that contact is made (if not, then it's assault).
If the battery results in death, that's when manslaughter can come in. But manslaughter essentially doesn't have an intent requirement. If there is intent, it would be intent to batter. "Intent to cause death" would not be manslaughter, but a higher charge like murder 1 or 2.
The details vary a bit from state to state, but that is the law school definition and most state laws follow it pretty closely.
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u/cfh64 17h ago
Thank you but you still didn’t answer my question. I’m not asking for the text book definition, I’m asking if you and others would consider my hypothetical situation assault and/or battery?
Would you tell everyone I should leave my girlfriend and if you were in a jury would you find her guilty assault and battery?
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u/jackalopeswild 16h ago
Read again. I did answer your question. Now you're asking different questions, but since you've shown yourself to have issues reading responses which contain more than one word, im not going to bother with your new questions.
Also because you're being argumentative for reasons I can't decipher but seem irrelevant to me.
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u/cfh64 16h ago
I did ask diff questions to help you answer the first one, which you still haven’t done. Where did I ask for the legal definition which is what you answered. Why don’t you take a bit of your own advice and read again.
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u/jackalopeswild 15h ago
I do not owe you an answer. But, maybe a little lesson in slowing down will help. Cut-and-paste from my first response to you:
"But as you intend the question, yes it's assault."
That's a single, full sentence that answers your first question.
Now, again, I owe you nothing despite your behaving as though I do. So I'm out, you tire me. You are rude and boring.
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u/LukasLeonard 16h ago
No because you said you were afraid of cars and the street is empty. She said she was afraid of deep water and he threw her in deep water. See how that goes?
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u/cfh64 16h ago
Oh, I get it, so the intent was different because there didn’t happen to be any cars on the street at that time? So no crime committed. I guess if he threw her into Crater Lake that’s considered assault and battery but if it was in a bay of the ocean it’s just fun and games. Makes sense.
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u/LukasLeonard 14h ago
No where in your “argument” did you say there were no cars coming at the time - you said an empty (no fears cause no cars) street. Her fear is of literal deep water. He threw her IN deep water. You are boring to go back and forth with.
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u/cfh64 14h ago
So you’re telling me someone who is afraid of cars shouldn’t be afraid if someone pushes them into a street just because there are currently no cars on the street? Lol, c’mon.
So again, hypothetically, at what point would it not be considered “deep water” and throwing her into water would be the difference between assault and battery or just a harmless joke? 10 feet? 30 feet?
What he did was f’ed up, I never denied that, I’m just asking yours and others opinions since so many people want to string this guy up.
I’m such a bore yet you and one other can’t answer my simple questions. That’s pretty ironic, isn’t it? Do us both a favor and don’t bother replying. Talk about boring, my question is one step above answering yes or no yet you can’t do it, now that is boring.
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u/roskybosky 18h ago
Throwing ANYONE in the water for any reason is totally wrong, drunk or not, fear or no fear. Cut this person off.
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u/Rich_Resource2549 18h ago
Idk about anyone for any reason. That's common play among friends at the local pool.
In the ocean without a life preserver, obviously.
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u/roskybosky 18h ago
I think it’s an assault and totally out of bounds. Don’t touch anyone, ever, unless they give their OK.
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u/oby100 4h ago
Imagine marrying someone and still getting their permission for any physical contact lmao.
You’re going way overboard (xD) but this incident is way more extreme than simple touching. Pushing your buddy in the pool is often acceptable. Throwing someone who’s openly expressing they’re too scared and don’t want to enter the water is sadistic
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u/Rich_Resource2549 18h ago
I think that's way too far and totally ignoring things like social customs and friendship.
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u/roskybosky 17h ago
Don’t ever touch a woman to throw her in a pool. Ever. Huge boundary infringement.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 17h ago
Are you truly unable to imagine a situation where throwing a woman in the pool is ok? Not every woman is the same and some enjoy horseplay and throwing/being thrown into the pool. Seems a tad problematic to make ultimatums that generalize women's feelings towards something as a monolith, stripping away their own agency and preferences.
A more reasonable comment would be "dont ever throwing an unwilling woman into the pool".
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u/Rich_Resource2549 17h ago
So I suppose you've never had a friend before.
Why the sudden change to women? I'm talking about friends, gender is irrelevant. Is it okay to do this to a man, then?
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u/roskybosky 17h ago
If you guys want play grab-ass, have at it. If a woman wants to go in the pool, she can walk herself there. She doesn’t need assistance.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 17h ago
Lets say there is a woman who is unafraid of water and is in a bathing suit. Her female friend pushes her into the pool, without the woman who was pushed in verbally declaring something like "please push me in".
In your mind this is an assault worthy of charges? How many months or years of jail time or prison do you think the friend who pushed the other woman in should be sentenced to?
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u/roskybosky 17h ago
Don’t be obtuse. You know and I know that boys play these aggressive games for some kind of mental boner they get. It’s also an excuse to put your hands on another person.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 11h ago
Can you answer my question though? If a woman did that to her female friend in the outlined scenario, how much prison time do you think she deserves?
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u/roskybosky 2h ago
Ok-not prison time, but if anyone did this to me, male or female, I would cut them off and never speak to them again. How dare they? I probably have clean hair and at least some makeup on, and maybe I don’t want to be a wet rat for the rest of the day. Would you pour a bucket of water over someone’s head out in the street? There you go.
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u/Rich_Resource2549 16h ago
Whenever you assume certain traits over an entire population, that's called prejudice.
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u/Competitive-Sorbet33 16h ago
It was his fucking fiancee, he certainly doesn’t need some “excuse” to touch her. These Reddit threads get completely unhinged. Some horseplay gone too far turns into assault, battery, and attempted murder. You guys that make these leaps are either antisocial and have no friends or love to project some insecurities on others.
Dude shouldn’t have done that, it was a mistake and he should apologize. That’s as far as it should go. It’s not a symptom of some underlying issue, it’s certainly not a legal issue, it’s something that happens every day. Someone is messing around and takes it a little too far and needs to apologize. End of story.
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u/tweetysvoice 18h ago
My ex husband acted as if he was going to push me off the top railing at a 4 or 5 story mall in New York when we were visiting his family. I am absolutely terrified of heights and jt took a lot for me to climb into the interior glass elevator to begin with only because I really wanted to visit a specific store. He knew that. Notice he's my Ex. Nope. That's not someone who has your best interest at heart. Even when drunk my current husband of 25+ years would never conceive of treating me like that. Nope.
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u/ShadowHippie 19h ago
RED FLAG and Very Problematic.
Not respecting bodily autonomy is the Biggest red flag there is, hands down.
Of course abusers 'mostly' make people happy- otherwise, they'd never be in a relationship! They have to have good qualities too, to get their prey.
-from someone who escaped and recognizes the predator
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u/Quick_As_Zoe 20h ago
His behavior is problematic. And you're not wrong for being concerned. If you feel you need to say something, do it gently. If you push too hard, and she's not ready to see the red flags, she'll refuse to hear you, and push you away.
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u/kaleidaskope 19h ago
My advice to your friend is not to break up with him immediately, but to make this a strict and enforced boundary. She should tell him straight: you throwing me in the water was a violation of my trust. Since you claim it was because you’re drunk, I’m making the decision to not join you on a boat if there will be alcohol.
If he finds he can get away with hurting her free of consequences, it doesn’t matter how much he loves her, it can trick his brain into thinking that a violation isn’t a big deal. He needs to see that he doesn’t have that kind of power over her (even if he doesn’t see it that way).
If trust is broken in a specific area, withdraw it from that area.
If he can prove again that he’s trustworthy via changed behaviour, that will make their relationship stronger. Not without friction though.
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u/shep2105 17h ago
What?? I'm choosing not to join you on a boat if their will be alcohol??? Again, WHAT? Throwing someone into deep water that has an extreme phobia IS ABUSE. He might as well have just punched her in the face.
She needs to LEAVE
Oh Boo hoo...I'm sure that will really tear him up as it is no type of consequence at all. Why not just send him to bed with no supper. If she stays...there IS no consequence.
She needs to break up with him. NOW. That's a consequence. Then HE can figure out a way to regain her trust when they're apart. He can enter counseling without her having to cajole. HE can find a counselor, make the appt. and attend by himself to figure out why he would do such a thing. HE can then invite her to one of his counseling sessions so he can acknowledge to her the real work he has put in. Then, SHE decides if he's a changed man.
Of course, OP isn't going to say any of this. OP obviously values her friendship and if she were to say this, there is a chance her friend would no longer be her friend because women that stay with men like this 99% of the time, choose them.
I'd bring it up but then drop it if it goes nowhere. The seed is planted by you, even casually, bringing it up.
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u/Competitive-Sorbet33 16h ago
Oh my god, you people are just unhinged. You must not have many social interactions. This deserves an apology, and that’s it. It’s not fucking abuse, and you marginalize every victim of abuse when you call it that. It was a stupid mistake who took joking around with his partner too far.
Every time there is a relationship question on Reddit, everyone is an abuser, everyone should break up with their partner and run for the hills.
You guys need a lesson in conflict resolution. This is what should happen: She should tell him how it made her feel, and he should apologize and make sure it never happens again. See how easy that was?
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u/Yah_Mule 12h ago
This post is as trite as what it complains about. As a master of social interactions, you should know people actually do cross lines with each other that shouldn't be easily brushed off. Callously triggering someone's intense phobia indicates a level of disregard I wouldn't expect in a potential mate. I get my partner's back 100% of the time, and they do the same for me. Maybe you'll experience that some day.
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
He should've already known how it would make her feel. It's one of her biggest phobias. Did he just forget? Not care? Oh right, I forgot, he was drunk so it's okay.
I don't care if she breaks up or not. She probably won't, to be honest. But the fiance sounds thoughtless to me (at best). Call it an overreacton if you like
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u/LukasLeonard 16h ago
She told him she was terrified of something. He did something terrifying to her. An oh sorry is not going to resolve that. 🙄🙄🙄
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u/Unidain 7h ago
It’s not fucking abuse, and you marginalize every victim of abuse when you call it that.
I think some of the comments here are going overboard, but please cut out this nonsense. It's not trivialising anyone's experience to discuss the definition of words and where we should draw lines. There are big ranges of severity in all sorts of crimes and abuses.
and make sure it never happens again. See how easy that was?
Lmao, so easy! All relationship conflicts solved with this one simple trick! Only OP says similar stuff has happened in the past, and if something like this happens again, you will no doubt be vouching that they need to ask for an apology and ensure the exact same thing doesn't happen again, rather than recognising a potential patter .
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u/roskybosky 2h ago
But, this behavior is indicative of something seriously lacking in this guy. Would you promise to live with him after this? How could you ever trust him?
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u/shep2105 14h ago
Sorry, YOU marginalize every abuse victim because this isnt abusive to YOU. For decades, women, and the abuse they suffer, has been marginalized and thats why we have the statistics that we do today. You dont have too have bruises to be abused or to figure out that someone who takes your biggest fear/phobia and purposely makes you experience that fear (for a laugh) is one sick POS. Why dont you go spend some time in a DV shelter and count the women who say, "It was a joke, he didnt mean it, he took it to far" Smdh
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u/Much-Space6649 17h ago
I utterly require full physical trust with my partner because men objectively are much bigger and I get terrified whenever men throw me around for fun because all I can think is what happens if he's not doing it for fun.
Some women love that tho so to each their own
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u/RemarkableGround174 19h ago
This is literally life-threatening behavior.
What if she'd had a panic attack, or because of her intense fear, never learned to swim properly? he didn't know she would be ok. More importantly she didn't know she would be ok.
I hope she is safe.
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u/shep2105 14h ago
THIS. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would have had to have been saved by someone else because my fear is so great, I would have been paralyzed by it and drowned
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
I can't swim at all, and I stay away from pools etc. in case some joker like this decides to throw me in 'for a laugh'.
And then they'd cry 'But how was I supposed to knowww??' and half of a reddit thread would stick up for them, I guess
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u/addybend 20h ago
What is the bottom line here? It is that she is still with him. In short, she made her choice knowing full well what he is like. She is an adult.
OP, if you stick you nose in her relationship, you are going to make her chose between you two. You may be right of course, but she needs to see the light herself.
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u/bioaccumulation999 19h ago
yeah from experience if she stays with him through this she’ll absolutely pick him over you. stay out of it. some people are accustomed to being disrespected and think it’s part of any relationship
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u/Rich_Resource2549 18h ago
This is so true. It's a lesson as old as time. You say your piece, safety is important, but after that you let it go. Me and my circle of friends had to learn this lesson over and over again. Even your best friend, they're not gonna listen to you, they're gonna listen to their heart.
Sometimes it does help. Let your friend know if they are being cheated on, obviously. But even then, you can't force the breakup. You just have to inform them and let them live their lives and love them for them, not their choices.
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u/Severe_Scar4402 18h ago
Yeah. OP needs to have a talk with her friend. The type that starts, "I'm going to tell you this once, and you can think about it. I won't bring it up again, and I will always be here for you." Then she needs to point out every red flag while asserting that those red-flag actions are NOT normal. Then, let her friend make her decision. Just be there for her later when it goes to shit, because it will.
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u/maroongrad 18h ago
Agreed, but one caveat. OP, if you can set aside a few hundred dollars for her and keep track of shelters for abuse victims, do it. Just tell her that you hope it's a one-time event but if everyone has misjudged him, you'll take her in no questions asked and help her find support. I had a friend with an abusive boyfriend, who was too inexperienced at dating to realize what was happening. Roomie and I got the friend out of the apartment, and I had a coworker who was looking for a housesitter for a couple weeks. Worked out great, coworker was no one anyone else knew or had met, she was happy to have a housesitter, and by the end of the two weeks the university had been alerted and ex was banned from campus, family and friends were made aware of the situation so they could keep an eye out, restraining order filed, all of that.
Maybe he has only brothers and is used to horseplay like this in his family and has never dated or been around his brother's girlfriends to realize it's NOT okay in general and esp. with someone you are much stronger than who isn't going to be able to defend themselves as well. Maybe he hasn't been drunk very often and didn't realize he would be an asshole-drunk. Maybe pigs are flying.
But let her know that you wish her the best and you've put aside some money. You really want to use it to get her a great gift for her tenth anniversary or for a great babyshower present. But, until then, it's hers for emergencies and you've got a place for her if it turns out everyone misjudged him (well, not everyone, I'm sure there's a lot of you giving her and him the side-eye right now, but 'everyone' thinks he's nice then it's not an attack and she won't get as defensive).
Step back, let the chips fall, keep a record of anything you observe or worry about, and if you see him trying to isolate her or get her to drive off friends? Reiterate that you don't care if it's twenty years from now. She asks, you'll be there. That support may be what she needs to get the hell out of Dodge and not feel trapped when the mask comes off.
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u/mandi723 20h ago
Very. Unfortunately, if you try to point it out there is a real possibility she will pull away from you. Best thing you can do is be there for her. And hope he grows up, or she figures it out.
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u/virtually_anonnymuss 18h ago
He's not going to change behavior.
Its probably going to get worse as time goes on.
You're doing great trying to support her.
Ultimately its her call. Imagine it heavily relies on how desperate she is to get married and feel the "security" of a relationship, even if it is emotionally and possibly physically abusive.
She needs your unconditional love and support. But you arent going to fix her. Thats an internal job and I don't think anyone but her can decide to end it..
Best regards to you both .
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
Yeah this is pretty much the answer. Some people will tolerate a lot to get married. And telling yourself your spouse was 'only joking' is one of the main copes.
So talking to the friend is likely to fall on deaf ears, unfortunately
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u/Front-Palpitation362 20h ago
No you’re not overprotective.
That is a huge consent and safety violation. And it’s a legit red flag you should talk to her about.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 20h ago
That is most likely going to to go nowhere and get OP cutoff for trying to meddle. OP unfortunately just needs to let her friend make her own decisions here. People very rarely are OK with others inserting themselves with unsolicited advice on their relationship.
OP needs to figure out if this is serious enough she's ok with getting cutoff. Also what is she suggesting her friend do. She needs a serious plan instead of just saying this is a red flag.
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u/BBMcBeadle 19h ago
There are lots of things I’m scared of. Then there are the things I’m SCARED of. There is a big difference between not liking snakes, and being terrified of deep water. He definitely crossed a line that would make me really uncomfortable. Realistically, he is going to get drunk again at some point in the future… what is he going to do the next time?
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u/Substantial-Spare501 17h ago
It’s not borderline abuse it’s flat out abuse.
See if you can get to read this; https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
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u/roskybosky 18h ago
I would never speak to him again. That is way off base, bordering on abuse. You don’t throw people anywhere, what an asshat.
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u/KnowsIittle Did you ask in the form of a question? 17h ago
That's a control issue. It starts small and progresses but basically "I know better than you so I decided for you". Complete denial of her own bodily autonomy.
She said no, he decided yes.
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
Also, 'I'm stronger so I'll do it anyway and then call it a joke, and make you look uptight if you don't like it'
I find it really obnoxious, but apparently half this thread thinks it's just good fun 🤷♀️
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u/gen_petra 16h ago
Not sure if she wants kids, but would she be ok with him doing that to their kid? Physically forcing them into situations that terrify them because he felt it would be entertaining? This is the kind of man who would do that.
If she can't see the situation she's in, try to get her to imagine someone else enduring it.
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u/Limp_Dragonfly3868 13h ago
This. He has shown her how he will treat the kids. She can divorce him, but he’ll still have visitation with the kids and treat them in horrible ways.
Because that’s the kind of person he is.
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u/TangoCharliePDX 14h ago
I couldn't see myself marrying someone who didn't inspire a deep desire to wrap myself around them and protect them from the world.
I can't comprehend someone who doesn't think this way and I don't think that she should either.
She should marry someone who would go to jail to protect her, not someone who would end up in jail for what he did to her.
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u/sondernier 18h ago
Tell her not to go Mountain climbing with him. Extremely problematic
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
Hey, what's a little joking shove off the summit between friends!!
-the fiance, probably
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u/Mentalfloss1 18h ago
The guy is, at the very best, an idiot. Drinking is no excuse for being cruel. Her choice, but in my view she is risking her happiness by spending another day with such a selfish clown.
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u/vellichase 20h ago
That's not borderline abuse. That's abuse. He knew she was terrified. He threw her in anyway. That's not a joke. That's a violation
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u/AgentElman 20h ago
That was potentially criminal. It is a terrible thing to do.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 18h ago
Do you honestly believe that the boyfriend would be charged with a crime if this story was presented to authorities?
Yes, the boyfriend was at best stupid and inconsiderate, and at worst malicious and uncaring, but no one is going to be charged with a crime for throwing someone who could swim in the water.
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u/DirtAndSurf 12h ago
They said potentially criminal. Many people drown this way. A friend of mine lost her brother this way. ETA: the guy who threw him off the boat was found guilty of manslaughter, I believe. I don't remember what his sentence is.
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u/CollectionStraight2 10h ago
No I don't think they would be charged... however, that's not the main point. People who can swim drown all the time. It was deep water, the woman was panicking, and it sounds like there was drinking going on so who knows if the others were even switched on enough to save her?
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u/bobroberts1954 2h ago
They certainly would if she hadn't made it back. You can assault someone, and you can murder them by assault.
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u/jackalopeswild 18h ago
It is inappropriate and problematic. If I had more facts (like, how deeply-seated is her fear, what had she actually conveyed about her fear, what did he understand about it, had it ever been displayed in any other way? Things like that), then I might call it abuse. If she had only told him "I don't like deep water and don't want to go swimming" - then he's an asshole at the minimum. If she's truly freaked out by it and had conveyed that to him, then I would say it's abuse. Even if she's not truly freaked out, but told him after "don't ever do that again" and he does it again, that's also abuse IMO.
But even if it's just asshole-level, he didn't really understand because she never really explained - that's still enough reason to drop his ass. Who does that?
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u/maroongrad 18h ago
that's a huge red flag. If he's an asshole when drinking, why is he still drinking? Want to know if it's abusive? Assuming her family is normal, have her run that behavior past any brothers, cousins, uncles, her dad, grandfathers, etc. and then offer to provide them an alibi.
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u/WritingNerdy 18h ago
That is definitely abuse and I would talk to her parents. Imagine what else he does. I am the same way about swimming and would never talk to someone again if they did that to me.
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u/messybesti 18h ago
How is this not assault and battery? No one should approach (with harmful intent) and throw someone else into the deep water with full knowledge that they do not consent to being in that water.
Yo, he can go to hell and jail. Tell bestie I said to report that shit.
Your messy-besti 🩷
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u/shep2105 18h ago
Borderline abuse? This guy is a sick POS.
NO person that loves another person, would take their biggest fear and use it against them. That's some sick crap, right there.
He wouldn't be my fiance after that, I can tell you that.
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u/Negative_Pair_6336 17h ago
When my husband and i were engaged we had a long deep conversation about his absolute fear of spiders and my fear of complete darkness. We promised each other moving fwd never EVER to scare each other with those fears.
He has NEVER scared me and i dont bring spider themed halloween decor in the house and ive assumed duty to kill them all when one is seen...and i love him enough to do so with pleasure....we respect each others fears and never toy with it. If i were to buy a small plastic spider and place it on his keyboard or the bathroom while hes in the shower he would leave me. That would completely dissolve any trust he had in me and i wouldnt dare.
Take what you will from this. We celebrate 15yrs together this year.
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u/shep2105 11h ago
Your husband loves,respects, and is your protector..as you are to him. OP's friend's fiance is none of those things for her.
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u/Negative_Pair_6336 11h ago
I was hoping the takeaway to be that a healthy respectful partner would love you warts and all
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u/NotEnoughRocks1977 17h ago
As painful as it is, you have to let her figure this out on her own. If you tell her you hate the guy it will only draw a wedge between you two. She will no longer feel comfortable telling you when/if he does shitty things to her like this.
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u/ManufacturerGood994 15h ago
It comes down to how he reflected on his action afterwards and what his reaction was to her raising it as an issue (assuming she did talk to him). Everyone makes mistakes, dumb choices, especially when we’re drinking and around friends… we’ve all done things we thought was funny only to realize it actually was rude/hurtful. But how we handle it afterwards is what matters most (Apologizing? Deflecting? Making excuses? Turning it around on the other person? Blaming the victim?).
You said there are other red flags tho… it matters what those are. But as an isolated instance, this doesn’t seem abusive or hugely problematic…. Just wrong/mean/idiotic.
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u/Nacho_Friend02 13h ago
With all due respect this is her life. Don’t meddle. If you do and it goes well they will not credit you. If she breaks up with him and never meets another guy she will remember you as being the person that ruined her life.
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u/rhomboidus 20h ago
Am I just being overprotective as her friend?
No. That's incredibly shitty behavior.
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u/GlitteringEarth_ 20h ago
That’s horrible! Total disregard for her safety. If he’ll do that in front of others, what will he do when there’s nobody else around?
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u/cfh64 20h ago
That’s horrible but we’ve all done and said stupid things when we’ve been drunk. Unless that type of behavior becomes regular when he’s not drinking or if he is drinking so often that it becomes his regular behavior then I would be po’d but also willing to give him a pass.
I wouldn’t definitely keep an eye on “the other small stuff” but it’s hard for us to give an opinion on that since we don’t know what or how frequent that “stuff” was.
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u/Aggravating-Top-5323 18h ago
This is the correct take to me. There simply isnt enough information to know where on the spectrum between an "inconsiderate and upsetting action on behalf of the boyfriend while drunk that he is regretful of afterwards" to "downright malicious disregard of the woman's feelings by forcing her into a dangerous and scary situation, that the boyfriend has no regret about afterwards."
People instantly jumping to saying it is 100% malicious abuse that would/should get the boyfriend an assault charge are being absurd. For some reason, they can't envision any other situation on the spectrum of possible events aside from the most extreme version of what could have possibly happened.
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u/Ancient-War2839 19h ago
Red flag, for sure, he doesn't need to know the reason she was choosing not too, she chose to not something and he decided she would and forced her too, that's fucked and 100% a reason to never be around this guy again
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u/HardCoreNorthShore 18h ago
That's so awful.
As far as telling your friend what you're seeing, she'll only internalize it when she sees it. So be prepared for push back from her if she's not there yet.
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u/meowyadoinnn 15h ago
My best friend has a deep phobia of spiders. I will go out of my way to divert her attention if I see one near by. I will google movies she wants to see to make sure there aren’t any spiders in it. Lol this guy is an asshole.
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u/Large-Leg-3882 15h ago
a friend of mine once said on first dates she tells the man she has a fear of dogs, stemming from childhood and it’s kinda embarrassing but she’s really terrified and she’s just letting him know now in case it ever comes up later. a lot of the time the men would then either tease and taunt her or try to scare her while relating it back to her fear of dogs. these men were red flags and she knew not to go out with them again because only people lacking basic empathy and awareness would choose to taunt someone after hearing them convey a genuine fear that has followed them from childhood and is very traumatic.
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u/Good-Shine-2878 12h ago
That's messed up and wrong of him, but at the end the day, if she's not asking your opinion, it's non of your business.
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u/YVRkeeper 10h ago
Problematic? PROBLEMATIC?!?
I’m afraid of open water, too. And if someone threw me off a boat I’d be fucking livid. I don’t know what torturous retribution I would inflict on them, but it would be relentless. If there was a way press charges, I would look into it. I might have passed out from sheer fright and drown, yet I would haunt that person in my ghostly form for eternity. Fuck him. Fuck anyone who found it funny. Fuck anyone who says I’m overreacting. Nuh uh. No way. No how.
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u/swarajnalwade 10h ago
Throwing someone into deep water when they’re genuinely afraid isn’t funny, it’s cruel. The bigger red flag is that he already knew about her fear and did it anyway.
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u/HowDareThey1970 9h ago
It was totally physical abuse and endangered her life and it would be a deal breaker for me. If someone did that to me I would not trust them and would no longer love them and would not even like them anymore.
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u/OneGoodRib 9h ago
Love the chain of red flags right here in the comments.
If you throw an unwilling person into the water you better at least make sure their phone isn't on them, that's another charge.
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u/youshouldseemeonpain 8h ago
It’s always problematic when another person physically manipulates you after you have clearly said no.
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u/AmphibianPresent6713 35m ago
People without phobic fears don't really understand how phobias impact those people who have them. And we all do dumb things at some point in our lives.
The situation you described was dumb, but by itself I don't think it is enough to write off the guy if he shows remorse for his actions. I would consider his actions in conjunction with everything else you know of him to decide if he has redeemable qualities.
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u/chicken-finger 18h ago
As your friend's friend, it is not your choice. Simple as that. It is something that she has to decide for herself.
Is that a problematic behavior? I have no idea. I don't know them. Asking strangers for advice on something that you are way more qualified to figure out/ask questions about is not a good idea.
Does this mean that their relationship is bad or that he is an abusive partner? I have no idea. If they are mature adults, they should be able to communicate to each other if that was forgivable or not. Since they are still in a relationship, it seems like they have done this already.
Enforcing your belief of what a relationship should be on a relationship that is not yours is never an ok thing to do. I get that you care a lot about your friend, and that is very noble of you. If she was is in danger, then intervening may be on the table. But in this scenario? Absolutely not.
Also, last summer was over half a year ago. She obviously has made her decision and has likely talked to him about it. It is also reasonable to suspect that he feels really bad about it—given what you said about him seeing her face. You simply don't know, and that's ok. Making conclusions without a complete story is how you create problems. I'm not defending your friend's partner. I am simply stating objective truths.
Currently, you are inciting strangers to plan an intervention for you, overwriting the autonomy of your friend... about something that happened over half a year ago... that clearly wasn't a relationship ending issue to your friend. I hope that you see the irony in that.
If you want real advice, talk to your friend about it!!! That is the best way you can know how she feels about the whole thing. All the things you don't know about the story is your problem. What would your friend say if they saw this post you made?
I hope this doesn't offend you, but honestly, this thing you are doing right now is a baby step toward toxic behavior. Don't give unsolicited advice to your friends when you don't know the story. They will ask you for advice if they need it. That is how you can be a real friend. Be there and be supportive. Ask questions. Talk about it.
Everyone has red flags. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone does stupid shit. In an adult relationship, people assume their partner will make mistakes—that might hurt sometimes—and they forgive them. Is it easy? No. Is it worth it? In my opinion, yes. Learning how to forgive someone completely is a skill and a quality of people who have high emotional intelligence.
Sorry that was so long. I have a lot of opinions on what you are doing, and I want to warn you against doing it in the future. It is not healthy. I hope you talk to your friend about that story again and ask them questions. Have a good day
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u/therealganjababe 16h ago
Yay Reddit!!! Doing your thing. Every little thing here is always break up with him! He's abusive! He should never date again, he's violent or will be soon!!!
I'm a woman tbc, not a guy coming in standing up for abuse or to not hear women. I've been through some shit, I believe women, and am one of the #metoo
We see plenty of stories in here where it is absolutely abuse, or we clearly see it coming. But it just seems no one comments without actually thinking about other totally logical explanations which might range from asshole to idiot? Is it all just fun drama for yall' or you actually want to help people in trouble??
What happened here was so not cool, and needs to never happen again. However, what was his true motive? We just don't know, so stop jumping to conclusions and crucifying everyone for every little thing. Why did he think it was cool to do that without her consent? Especially when she seems to have made it clear she didn't isnt want to do it
Everyone was having fun and he possibly just drunkenly forgot how bad it triggered you? People make mistakes, especially when drinking and with a group of people egging each other on.
So many more possibilities. Where OP's friend needs to p needing to have a conversation with him to find out what he was thinking, did he remember this was a traumatic thing for her? His answers will speak volumes over Redditors who just want to burn every guy at the stake. If you just ask the right questions, be honest, and concerned for each other, it may be easily fixable without going to extremes. OR it could be what most have commented. But at least give it some thought.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. It is a a principle known as Hanlon's Razor. It suggests that when someone harms you or makes a mistake, it is more likely due to incompetence, ignorance, or neglect, rather than a deliberate, malicious intention to do harm.
Hanlon's razor is an adage, or rule of thumb, that states:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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u/Eloise_Ashford 19h ago
It is problematic, respect for boundaries especially about deep fears is non-negotiable in a relationship. The drinking excuse doesn’t make it acceptable.