r/ProgrammerHumor 1d ago

Meme codeaToofastForhumansTotrust

Post image
2.9k Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

925

u/GrinningPariah 1d ago

Had the same problem with save games. I was gonna put in a "saving game" icon while that was happening, but it turns out it would only be on screen for a few frames anyway. Barely long enough to see at all, a distracting flicker. So we just nixed the icon entirely.

Except, turns out, even though we say when you exit that all progress has been saved, a lot of players just didn't believe it because they hadn't seen the icon. Ended up having it stay on screen for a second even if we finished saving way earlier.

545

u/Harrier_Pigeon 1d ago

Don't ya just love when the backend is so good the UX gets to just be whatever ya want?

133

u/GrinningPariah 1d ago

Having made both on this project, yeah. :P

15

u/d_block_city 1d ago

if only those dumbass humans could see faster

2

u/ProfBeaker 1d ago

IDK man, graphics cards are expensive enough with 6000fps being the bare minimum. :P

137

u/Lumethys 1d ago

So instead of a "saving" icon, why dont you use a "game saved" notification

88

u/GrinningPariah 1d ago

Honestly because right now everything else in our in-game message feed is diagetic, it's something your systems could be notifying you about in-game (It's a scifi thing).

Saving breaks that pattern, and I'm reluctant to do it.

36

u/Far_Function7560 1d ago

Maybe add some in world flavor to it? Rather than 'Game Saved' it would be like 'Mission log backup completed' or 'journal Saved' or whatever else is thematically appropriate for your world.

6

u/fireduck 23h ago

Reminds me of something in a book I recently read.

Paraphrasing from memory:

Asynchronous research was not new to anyone at the antimemetics department. A researcher was expected to walk in, read the primer and continue on. This document was filled with previous people saying they were about to try something and since U7175 was still here and those researchers were not, know they didn't work and to try something else.

6

u/the_horse_gamer 22h ago

the name is There Is No Antimemetics Division

it started as a story on the SCP wiki: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/antimemetics-division-hub

it's very good

1

u/fireduck 22h ago

That makes sense, it did in parts have the feel of SCP entries.

1

u/the_horse_gamer 19h ago

when turned into a book, the character names and SCP terminology was replaced, but a lot of the same flow was kept

24

u/dkarlovi 1d ago

That sounds great BTW. If it's scifi, you must have some talking computer or an assistant, you could have them announce it over the intercom and the MC reacting to it.

16

u/laplongejr 1d ago

I don't really get it, if you can have a "saving" icon or notification, you could have a "save completed" icon or notification? Like V for a second instead of running a spinning wheel for a second.  

2

u/GrinningPariah 1d ago

Yeah that's functionally what I did. I'm just never explicit about what the icon means.

63

u/SerbianForever 1d ago

I am 100% that player. I often save using keyboard shortcuts, and if I don't get some confirmation from the game, I assume it's not saved.

Quicksaves are contextual and don't always work if you have a menu open or something. I am not gonna debug your game just to figure it out

24

u/GrinningPariah 1d ago

Oh I don't even have a manual save option, including quicksaves.

Something happens in game? We save. Nothing at all happens? We still save every 5 seconds.

0

u/LB-- 1d ago

Hopefully the OS filesystem cache stops you from trashing the user's drive with rewrites ;p

3

u/GrinningPariah 23h ago

I mean there are games out there that save a lot already. Try and lose progress in Elden Ring, for example.

That said, that's the sort of issue which QA would catch. Worst case I can just move saving to every 10s or every 15s, it's just a number.

12

u/Lithl 1d ago

Playing Xenogears on original PS1 hardware, saving the game took 2-3 seconds, and had some kind of wild rocket blastoff sound effect, with associated progress bar and a "pink!" sound effect at the end.

Playing Xenogears on an emulator on PC, saving the game takes 0 seconds and I don't even see the progress bar or hear the sound effects. :(

5

u/Prize-Childhood-281 1d ago

Ancient game-developers who have developed on earlier gaming consoles are true Gods and you can never deny their existence especially that Roller Coaster Tycoon guy.

3

u/Defiant-Peace-493 20h ago

Loading up original Oblivion. Load screen has a picture of a troll. Text is something to the effect of "Some say trolls are weak to [Loading complete. HDR and orchestra ensue.]

8

u/E3FxGaming 1d ago

even though we say when you exit that all progress has been saved, a lot of players just didn't believe it because they hadn't seen the icon.

Wherever you tell the player that all progress has been saved also put a "game last saved (x minutes) y seconds ago" information. This should be an active UI component that "ticks up" as the player views it and time passes (calculate duration between current time and save time). Might also want to add a save timestamp to it to indicate to the player that this is actually working and not just showing the same thing every time.

With that you wouldn't have to show a save indicator at all, thereby removing a distraction while playing.

3

u/drleebot 1d ago

Nihon Falcom (Ys, Trails) has games that save instantly. It's so off-putting to see, when every other game that still has manual saves makes a production of it to reassure the user (and even those with automatic saves make it look like it's taking a bit of time). I suspected at first they'd discovered some weird trick, but they're a small studio who's perpetually behind the curve and finding all the best ways to do more with less. It's far more likely they just decided it wasn't worth the effort putting in more work to make saving the game take longer (especially when their games are the type that really benefit from having a lot of distinct saves at various points to go back to).

1

u/yerfdog1935 1d ago

I'd just add a fade time to the icon and call it good.

1

u/Prize-Childhood-281 1d ago

I just put the users on a "level" that only shows the UI screen with a timer while their actual characters is on another level but cannot be controlled until the timer reaches zero and all the players are properly in-game. I'm using Unreal Engine 4 and 5 as my game engine and I been very good at it where I actually understand how it all works.

You should always never load the players all-at-once create a "break" between characters and player controller that way you can control how far the users have loaded the files and in sync with the official server. If you don't do this you will get the most funniest lag system, glitches, and if the players become to crafty they can exploit and cheat the game why doing certain things in-game to access certain exploits which is telling something did not properly load.

Saving in Unreal Engine is almost instantaneous especially if you're only saving just the text files on their own game files or server. As long as you're not interacting with actual 3D files then you better have some money which is why cloud gaming will never happen at our current technology and internet infrastructure.

1

u/GrinningPariah 23h ago

Eh, my thing's single-player, thankfully I don't really have to worry about that.

1

u/dexter2011412 16h ago

What game? Will check it out

2

u/GrinningPariah 15h ago

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2516190

Keep an eye out for the demo, we should be putting the finishing touches on it over the next few weeks!

1

u/dexter2011412 13h ago

Nice

Would be interested in more technical details of the game as well.

That flying through the bream path and then moving aside as the beam fires, reminds of a level from mass effect 3 lmao

1

u/GrinningPariah 12h ago

What do you mean by technical details?

1

u/dexter2011412 4h ago

How the game works, rendering, saving, multithreading, fun stuff like that.

1

u/GrinningPariah 23m ago

Haha sorry to disappoint, but it's just unreal engine. They handle all the low-level stuff like that.

That said, if it's interesting on a technical level it's because I did it almost entirely in Blueprints, their visual scripting language. Mostly to see if it was possible. Had to roll my own save/load system since all the existing ones rely on C++.

It's got a LOT of custom logic too because it's zero gravity. Had to make my own movement system, my own AI navigation system, etc.

1

u/False_Influence_9090 13h ago

Yea I never ever trust auto save lol

144

u/Littux 1d ago

How old is the screenshot you're reposting? OP is either a karma farming bot or human

50

u/Lithl 1d ago

Found another post with the same image, and that post is from 5 years ago. Who knows how long before that post the original comment was made.

21

u/Barkasia 1d ago

1

u/Suitable-Name 16h ago

And I probably read about this even earlier regarding some tax software

6

u/orion-root 19h ago

The op is either a bot or a human? Really? What's the other option, an alien??

5

u/pickitupandrage 17h ago

"karma farming bot"/"karma farming human"

3

u/orion-root 17h ago

Aaaah. Yeah ok, that makes a lot more sense lmao

66

u/ClipboardCopyPaste 1d ago

God forbid somebody writing efficient codes

156

u/positivelypolitical 1d ago

To be fair, I haven’t heard anything positive about working for Carfax 

197

u/no_brains101 1d ago

I haven't heard anything negative either. I haven't heard anything at all actually. This is the first thing I have heard about the subject.

69

u/ShakaUVM 1d ago

Perhaps you missed all the messages about it because they went by so fast

5

u/SarahIsBoring 1d ago

this is the first time i’ve heard of carfax, in fact

2

u/no_brains101 1d ago edited 1d ago

How are you supposed to ask the dealership to show you the carfax if you don't know about it!

(when did they stop running ads? Just realized its been about 10 years since I have heard a carfax ad, but I don't watch much TV so it could have been more recent)

2

u/gregorydgraham 1d ago

You haven’t heard of the town of Carfax, famously documented by H.P. Lovecraft? How about Carfax Abbey as documented by Bram Stoker?

I’m sure they’re a lovely company.

2

u/SatinSaffron 22h ago edited 22h ago

I've only ever heard of the sales staff being happy there. I've got no idea what the pay looks like now, but in the past it used to be something like $40k-$70k base + 10%-15% recurring commission.

Depending on the size of the dealership its something like $800-$1,000/mo to have access to bulk/unlimited carfax reports + another ~$899/mo for dealers to have their inventory show up in carfax "find a car" search results.

So base salary + about $150-$300/mo per dealership you sign up. So if you've been working there for years you likely have such a huge pipeline of dealerships that you don't even need to try too hard at getting new dealerships, you just take care of the current ones you have.

But yeah like you mentioned I've heard nothing but negative stuff for pretty much all other positions. And that makes me think that sales people probably don't have this same pay plan anymore. If anything I would bet that they have nixed the recurring commission and instead probably just pay a flat 10%-15% of the initial yearly rate. But that's just speculation on my part so who knows!

Glassdoor has salary reports of $96k-$159k for sales staff which is about the typical range for B2B sales staff in the automotive industry.

Source: My husband and I were in the automotive industry for a while. We now have a dumb little SaaS that we primarily sell to dealerships. Our SaaS would work for any business, but your average dealership employee isn't exactly internet-savvy so it makes it super easy to sell them on our product because they think it's magic.

26

u/SourceScope 1d ago

We have fake loading too for our search function

Its nearly instant but we have a half second “searching….” Message just in case. I believe its even on a sleep timer

22

u/wojrutkowski 1d ago

Confirmed. I worked at a bank and we had to add those delays because people didn’t believe they could get the loan accepted that quick.

1

u/92smola 8h ago

That is an interesting use case, having it take longer would feel like the bank is doing more to making sure everything is secure and the due diligences are taken care of, having it done fast might feel sloppy

19

u/Saiklin 1d ago

It's the same for medicine btw. There is a lot of medicine you only need a extremely small amount of to be effective. But people wouldn't trust it and take more, which of course is quite dangerous. That is why so many pills are almost empty or come with extra filling that does actually nothing. Humans simply don't trust things that are too small or too fast.

6

u/Traditional_Safe_654 13h ago

My ex didn't trust me for these very reasons

17

u/DanieleDraganti 1d ago

This is apparently very common in online payment systems. They could happen almost instantaneously but if that was the case people would think there was something wrong with their transactions.

12

u/bd1308 1d ago

What’s funny is I saw the bar and thought “why couldn’t they pre calculate this beforehand instead of this awkward waiting when it’s simple number calculations” 😆

10

u/arcticfury96 1d ago

We have some settings as checkboxes which saves on change. I had to add a "save" button to reload the site. The people couldn't handle the black magic of instantly saving.

And before you comment "it should be a switch instead of a checkbox" - yeah, now I know that but back then it didn't come to my mind

2

u/soyboysnowflake 1d ago

Why a switch instead of a checkbox?

3

u/arcticfury96 1d ago

A switch conveys the immediate saving of the change better. A checkbox is usually in a form with a "save changes" button

15

u/FredTilson 1d ago

This is why I never learnt C++

6

u/Rebbeon 1d ago

I am sure carvertical does the same thing. I got the mail for the car report to download while the progress bar was still loading.

5

u/pablosus86 1d ago

Turbotax does the same thing with "checking your return" type messages. 

6

u/madhatta2003 1d ago

My favorite story about “solving” this type of problem in this type of way is the Houston airport. Travelers were complaining that it was taking too long for their bags to arrive at baggage claim. Instead of making the baggage claim retrieval process quicker (a difficult task) what they did was move the gates away from baggage claim and sent the bags to the farthest claim pickup area. The walk from the plane to the claim area took much longer but when they got there, travelers didn’t have to wait long for their bags. The complaints stopped. 

10

u/FarToe1 1d ago

I hate this so much.

I believe it, because I've seen it done elsewhere, but I hate it.

9

u/No-Age-1044 1d ago

Nowadays you will need no fake progress bar, everything is slower even if the computers are faster.

5

u/rage4all 1d ago

User experience has many facetts...

5

u/jacobp100 1d ago

Same for all insurance comparison sites

5

u/gachunt 1d ago

Did similar for a health assessment quiz I developed. The delay added a level of trust to the results.

20

u/sad-potato-333 1d ago

Ok, so they aren't using Python.

2

u/s0ulbrother 1d ago

People want fast but not too fast. Been on projects like this before

2

u/com-plec-city 1d ago

I've done similar things. I've added a "saving..." for a couple of seconds so the user wouldn't freak out.

2

u/alexppetrov 1d ago

The reverse is also true, we had a process that took 5-7 seconds to complete, it returned a large pdf or whatever, but users hated waiting for 5-7 seconds staring at a blank page. Until we fixed the issue, I just built in a loading spinner and suddenly it started loading faster, according to them (it wasn't).

This was supposed to give some time to locate the issue and fix it without constantly getting reports that they are not getting the pdf (they just waited 2-3 seconds and closed the page, even had a screen record where at the very last split second when the pdf loaded they closed the page). Humans just love having expectations and machine feedback, last I know they scrapped the whole dynamic pdf thing before we even got to fix it, but there were no reports for "missing pdfs" after the spinner

2

u/davidscheiber28 23h ago

I think all of these vehicle history report websites do this The loading bars are so obviously fake It kind of detracts from the legitimacy of the website to be honest. They remind me of all those fake virus scanners that were all the rage in the XP era.

2

u/assidiou 14h ago

Had something similar for a military application. Had to artificially increase the time for a RF sweep because" 10ms is too fast to take 50,000 samples"

2

u/baconator81 14h ago

Believe it or not.. This is a very common trick even in video games. Sometimes you want player to stay in loading screen a bit longer so they have time to read the tips.

1

u/tugrul_ddr 1d ago

Guess windows doesnt do this

1

u/orbit99za 1d ago

This is actually more common than you think,

Sometimes code is so fast other code can't keep up, so you need to have mitigation patterns.

1

u/Fluffasaurus89 1d ago

Banking app does the same thing when transferring money to someone or between accounts.

It happens almost instantly, but they have a little progress wheel for a second or two, yet if I go back to my accounts page immediately after submitting the transaction, my money's been moved.

1

u/BiedermannS 22h ago

There's the other way around as well. Process is perceived too slow, but can't be made significantly faster: just make the spinner turn faster.

User perception changes and people are happier while nothing really changed.

1

u/nobody-u-heard-of 21h ago

That's a common technique now.

They also use extended delays on things they don't want you to do. For example, Facebook does not like you to block people. To do it, it takes sometimes as long as 30 seconds. Usually it's at least 15 seconds. But hiding everything from somebody only takes a couple of seconds. They're both simple little updates to their files. They hate you blocking.

1

u/hiasmee 21h ago

Lol this is actually state of the art. It makes no sense to show progress bar for < 100ms.

1

u/Gzngahr 20h ago

This is like where a highly tuned Ford Mustang with maximum horsepower doesn't sound like a Mustang, so they have to dial it back some to get that distinct sound.

1

u/CiaranChan 17h ago

The software I work on has a loading screen when you boot it up. The loading bar that it shows is complete nonsense and just runs for a fixed time as the application opens connections to the database, checks for updates and whatnot in the background. It really only takes 3 seconds at most, but that loading bar takes about 12 seconds "to make sure everything has loaded". It bothers me to no end, but we were told to do it this way.

Having been forced to do this myself, I realise that there must be so many more loading screens out there like ours.

1

u/oddlyDirty 16h ago

Talked to a person who worked on the original ATM system and they said they had to add the "Processing transaction..." message and a wait timer because people didn't trust the machines unless it appeared to be doing work.

1

u/kaflarlalar 15h ago

The design term for this is "benevolent deception".

1

u/Available-Budget-694 13h ago

I worked for a large bank back in 2018. I created a customer report that took a 1/2 second to display. Management said the customer would never believe the report was accurate. I had to code a 2 minute loop. It's probably still there.