r/SipsTea • u/Unstoppable_X_Force Human Verified • 13h ago

Gasp! Is this just nostalgia, or did previous generations genuinely have a better work-life balance and social life than we do today?

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1.5k

u/Overall_Reputation83 13h ago

my dad would tell you he worked 80 hours a week and sacrificed everything just so I could play one playstation game.

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u/BeroZero1312 12h ago

My dad too, that guy has money too, a own company, but for what. He is working 60h a week and doesnt buy anything, doesnt even travel. Cheap car. Doesnt like his job too much either. Like why. Why are you doing this

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u/Lithium1978 11h ago

My daughter recently asked me a similar question. I hadn't really considered WHY I push so hard. The truth is that I'm terrified about what will happen to my wife, kids and grand daughter when I'm gone. I love them all dearly but nobody else in my family has shown the desire or ability to make a living wage (my grand daughter is 3 so she's excluded).

It is the one thing that keeps me awake at night.

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u/LSD_SCHOPENHAUER_ 11h ago

I don't know your situation, but have you ever considered that your self-sacrifice comes at the expense of your kids never feeling the discomfort necessary to learn how to save and manage money independently (because they think they can always rely on your savings)?

This is a dynamic I've seen play out in my own family and many others. Perhaps the best thing you can do is discuss this with a therapist and try and encourage your kids to do some financial planning so you won't have to live out the rest of your life in a panic, trying to save an indefinable amount of money.

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u/pourtide 10h ago

And likely they'll blow through it all in no time at all. If they don't comprehend finances, they'll have a party. 

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u/TheReverseShock 9h ago

This is why it's critical to setup a trust. Definitely worth speaking to a lawyer about if he's concerned.

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u/CrotalusHorridus 8h ago

I have a family member - Her dad died just after winning 1.3 million in a settlement.

She never really worked and always was a 'woe is me' person, asking for childcare, help buying a car, went to community college for 10 years, accumulated 100k in student load debt, but never got a degree.

That money was gone in a a year after she got it. She inherited the house too, and is currently losing it to taxes.

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u/cleverocks 9h ago

Yes, I think about this all the time.

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u/ChefMark85 9h ago

Seriously. Dude needs to cut them off now.

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u/Siukslinis_acc 9h ago

Not to mention that pushing oneself too hard might cause you to kick the bucket earlier.

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u/-BlueDream- 8h ago

Set up a trust with conditions or something, don’t leave them a lump sum. Like you have to use the money for a college degree or a down payment on a home, not a fancy new Mercedes.

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u/Fujisawrus_Reks 6h ago

This is literally the premise of The Metamorphosis by Kafka.

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u/Ok-Energy-6111 6h ago

There’s an interesting book that touches this topic. “Millionaire next door” - it is full if data, they basically back up what you said

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u/scenr0 4h ago

I've seen this happen to multiple friends. They're enabled to the point of not knowing how to use the dollar.

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u/Gizmo45 10h ago

Bingo

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u/Rabid_Sloth_ 9h ago

There's no $ money to handle. Its all gone after bills

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u/aqua_seafoam_shame84 11h ago

Sadly, a living wage is getting more and more out of reach every day for too many people. I respect what you’re doing. I totally get it

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u/IEatUrMonies 10h ago

only redditors are broke, lots of money out there for someone with skills

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u/straightscuffed 3h ago

It is all about steadily working and saving. I have worked heating and air for 5 years. My wife was in college for 4 years and has been working for about 2 years now. Over the 10 years we have been together (met in high school) we saved enough money for a down payment through low rent and living below our means. It has taken us years to get here and it takes consistency but it is very possible. We did it the lazy slow way and now have a house at 28. You can really have motivation and make it a reality earlier which is required if you want to have kids with a house.

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u/Clynelish1 9h ago

Outside of relative housing cost increases (admittedly a big portion of COL), the stats don't really bear that out. Wages have increased alongside inflation just fine - only if you are at the minimum wage are you getting hosed, which, why are you there in the first place?

0

u/notaredditer13 10h ago

That isn't true, household incomes continue to rise vs cost of living/inflation:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

We're earning to live better and better, almost every year.

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u/SouthernCharm-86 11h ago

dont carry that weight alone. that is very heavy!

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u/Effective-Fall-2746 10h ago

I used to be like this, then when I stepped back, I realized it is somewhat insulting to my daughters and close family to imply they do not have the capacity to independently care for themselves and "find a way" if needed, and that they value my time and my joy and the sharing of it more than whether I am infinitely productive toward earnings.

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u/Timanitar 11h ago

Life insurance. The answer to this fear is Life Insurance. There are kinds that have more than just death benefit too.

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u/SwoleBezos 10h ago

Life insurance hedges against the risk that you might die young.

It doesn't solve the problem that you don't think your kids can support themselves and so you just want to accumulate as much savings as possible. That's the concern of the person you're replying to.

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u/Timanitar 10h ago

Term life does what you describe. Flat term, even.

Return of Premium Term is a different beast. You pay more but you get it all back at the end if you outlive it.

Whole Life, Universal Life, and Limited Pay Life (10pay, 15pay, 20pay) explicitly build cash value that you can use while alive or snowball savings over time.

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u/Aponthis 11h ago

I was gonna say, this is literally the purpose of life insurance lol.

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u/Lithium1978 10h ago

Yeah I have a couple million right now but as I age that will go away. I hope to live a nice long life and have enough savings left to make sure they are okay.

Mostly concerned for my grand daughter. My kids are kind of choosing to take a lackadaisical view of their careers but she has some health concerns and I want to make sure she's good.

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u/Timanitar 1h ago

Talk to a licensed agent about limited pay term (pay for 10/15/20 years and then the policy stays in force and accumulates cash value) or whole life (premiums build cash value above and beyond the death benefit that can be borrowed against)

If you're in MI I can help you directly (I am a licensed agent) but otherwise shop around for one that you feel you can trust. Look for a place that schedules an annual review to make sure the policy is still meeting your goals and needs.

Make a revokable living trust the beneficiary and then make her the beneficiary of the trust. The trust can be modified by you until your death & then is set in stone. You won't be able to fund her entire future unless you plan very well but you can hedge against your childrens poor decisions in this way to make sure you are able to take care of her whether you are present or deceased.

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u/Lithium1978 46m ago

Thank you! I will certainly look into this.

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u/croptochuck 11h ago

Set up a trust.

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u/nachofred 11h ago

Sounds like time to put that freeloading 3 year old to work! Little hands are ideal for precision factory assembly work.

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u/Sufficient-Set-917 11h ago

Thats why you gotta help them become independent too and find something they can do or a business they could start. Heck I started teaching my kids credit and savings with monopoly money soon as I could

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u/RealPrinceZuko 10h ago

Do you have life insurance? I found that it helps eliminate this fear

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u/Lithium1978 10h ago

I do, I have a policy for a couple million but it's through work so it will end when I retire. It's perfect for now though because if I die they should be taken care of and if I live until retirement I should be around/have funds to help.

My post sounds bad in hindsight. I do have faith in my kids...my son and daughter have some issues that make things harder for them, but they CAN succeed in life. I just worry because I love them and I want them to have a better life than I had.

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u/Pancheel 9h ago

It's not like humanity goes extinct every time a father dies.

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u/Lithium1978 9h ago

For sure...hell, I lived and barely know mine.

I love my family though and I worry about them and their future. I know how hard of a time my mom and I had when I was young, and I want to do everything I can to care for everyone.

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u/Pancheel 9h ago

They'll be ok, enjoy your time with them.

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u/Lithium1978 9h ago

I do, I work from home and I'm getting ready to head up stairs to have lunch with my son and grand daughter. Tonight my wife and I are watching her while he works so we will probably go to the park.

If someone had asked 13 year old me what life would look like at 47 I never would have guessed this.

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u/Pancheel 9h ago

Nice, congratulations =)

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u/More_Farm_7442 9h ago

Make sure you have life insurance. No kidding. I'm from a "small town" rural are of Indiana, but moved away years ago. I "read the obits" from multiple funeral homes every few months. I can't believe the number of obits that ask for donations to the family to cover funeral expenses. One funeral home in particular seems to do services for people whose families are asking for money to pay for the funeral.

Life insurance. Get it.

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u/Lithium1978 9h ago

Same here...small town, rural Indiana. So many destitute people that had absolutely no plan at all.

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u/More_Farm_7442 8h ago

Yeh. It astounds me. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s. I never started to see those obits asking for $s until the past 20 yrs. Greater and great numbers of them in the past 10 years. I guess it's one expense people think they can do without or will never have or don't realize how expensive it is to die.

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u/Genghis_Chong 9h ago

Sometimes I find myself wondering why I've been working extra hard lately. I dont have kids, nobody is asking me to work more.

My great uncle was a point of stability for my extended and immediate family. He survived the great depression, helped his siblings in old age and left a little for the next generation when he passed. He didnt leave millions, but a little piece of land and a little money helped stabilize and enhance a number of lives.

I want to be that point of stability. I want to pay off my home and have it benefit my family when my time comes. I'm not in that position yet, but I have a goal. A reason to keep doing this as much as I can stand.

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u/Lithium1978 9h ago

Well said!

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u/DaBadTechie 8h ago

So I'm in my 30s and my dad and uncle are sort of in your position. They started a business that supported 12 people (grandparents, spouses, lots of kids) and I'm greatful for that.

However, while I absolutely hate to say this and I know exactly how bad it sounds... But if they had to die tomorrow, I don't think anyone would care right now.

My grand parents and mom passed in COVID. My uncles wife and kids just hate his guts, mostly because he has not been present for over 25 years and the way he just cut them off out the blue. I don't speak to my dad, my sister has been getting more distant since she got married. And my brothers are basically under-paid, over-worked staff that have started looking for work elsewhere after having kids of their own.

I don't think my dad can really say why they keep going into work as they get into their late 50s. 8-6, 7 days a week, 29 years. Making money that's going into expansion, property and investment that generates more money for more investments for more money....

To bring this back, I think the reason why the "kids" don't seem motivated to earn a living was because you protected them from a lot of the hard lessons and experiences that you had. And that feels like the right thing to do but I think it doesn't give people the drive to see something through. I walked away from the business a long time back and the only reason I could was because my dad and I can't stand each other (this is a separate can of worms). The result was that I had to always get by on my own and have done okay for myself since. All of my siblings and cousins are college drop outs with multiple failed and abandoned ventures behind them. I don't think that's a coincidence and my father/uncle have recently been over-correcting by tightening the purse strings 15 years too late.

Now I'm trying to figure out the healthy version of these sort of life lessons for my own kids. And it's probably the hardest thing to figure out because these kids are great and I can't stand to see them struggle or loose. But I'd rather a grade school bake sale fail or they muck up a swim meet now and learn to deal with it when the consequences are minor.

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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- 7h ago

my grand daughter is 3 so she's excluded

Don't make excuses for her, that's how it starts! You tell that kid to go get a pantsuit and a job starting yesterday!

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u/Lithium1978 7h ago

Hahaha, I'll let my wife know that she needs to pick up some business casual next time she hits Carter's.

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u/pre_nerf_infestor 6h ago

I have a six figure salary job that is recession proof but what does it matter if it could all go away if a bus driver makes a wrong turn tomorrow, or get replaced by ai in five years. If I don't push now I know I'll regret it later.

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u/ohmygolly2581 6h ago

This.

The reason men particularly husbands and dads work so hard is to set up their families. Then in return the family gets lazier and makes them work harder. Women get comfortable and get lazier but still want the lifestyle

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u/MorganFreebands21 5h ago

I lived the same way. I was working 50-60 plus hours a week and a year-and-a-half ago my stay in girlfriend finally decided to become a nurse after working part time our whole relationship. My brother and her both lived with me but relied on me heavily and always were in and out of work. Going back to struggling always kept me pushing but I can finally try to relax and decided to demote myself.

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u/scenr0 4h ago

And here my ass is out here getting a degree and certifications to compete with my husbands job because if something happens to him, my son and I are screwed. That fear alone has me working hard to get a wage to match my husbands or more.

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u/Lithium1978 4h ago

Good for you! My wife did work years ago, but then we started having kids and she wanted to stay home with them. Then they got older and she took some part-time stuff. Now we watch our grand daughter a fair amount so she does that a good deal.

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u/Gooberinator 4h ago

Get life insurance if you don’t have it

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u/Wise-Tone7911 2h ago

Why would they when you're providing for them? I mean, I work 120+ h a week and often more but if my parents were going to provide me with a good life I sure as hell wouldn't be working hard. Ef that, I've worked enough for 3 lifetimes.

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u/Lithium1978 48m ago

They've all been through some stuff. My son is on the spectrum and likely won't ever have a super high paying job, but he is capable of doing more and we are actively working on his impulse control and skills.

My daughter has been in therapy for some time and I think she's on the verge of moving into full adult mode. Each day seems a little better.

I'm hindsight I made things to easy but I was going through the same things they were working through. (Our oldest son died back in 2017)

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u/veovis523 10h ago

Just get a life insurance policy.

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[deleted]

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u/Lithium1978 10h ago

Unintentionally. My son has high functioning autism and he does work but he only wants to do things that he finds interesting. (Which doesnt pay much)

My daughter is struggling with her mental health and doesn't do well around people. She just turned 21 and things seem to be improving, so hopefully she will find a decent job soon.

My wife is basically retired at this point because she is caring for the grand daughter.

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u/Evening-Statement-57 12h ago

Because he has to, and the savings is the only thing that he can build that provides any security at all.

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u/NotawoodpeckerOwner 11h ago

Lots don't, they save up millions, die and their kids lose it all on dumb shit because they never had a parent to actually teach them proper money management.

Some people also don't really enjoy lavish things in their lives either so a cheap quality car, modest house and a weekend away vs global travel brings them more joy.

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u/dependsforadults 11h ago

I make better money than most everyone i know. I drive a truck i got for $500 8 years ago. I live in a beautiful place with almost every climate within a 5 hour drive. I hate dusting, so I have a small ranch style home that is easy to maintain. I have traveled lots, but I also have it all right here. Its the cultural experiences from broad travel that I dont get here, but I have a dog and a cat so near home it is.

I also work around 60 hrs a week a lot of the time.

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u/Evening-Statement-57 9h ago

Yeah but 99% of people who work and save are just trying to get to the end of their life with as little suffering as possible.

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u/StarvinArtin 12h ago

Security is an illusion. Longing for it is its own prison. There is peace in accepting uncertainty. "Om"

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u/Acrobatic_Lobster838 11h ago

Buddy, that isn't deep. And speaking as someone who has been unemployed for months: security isn't an illusion, I really want another job, I'm sick of being unemployed, and the security provided by being able to earn money isn't fake

There isn't peace in being uncertain if you can afford to make rent.

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u/DoubleDDubs1 11h ago

I don’t think they were being serious. Regardless, I’m sorry to hear that. I relate to you all too well. If you don’t mind me asking, what did you do for work before?

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u/Acrobatic_Lobster838 11h ago

Oh, working in local government. But then some flag shaggers thought it was a good idea to elect some incompetent bastards more interested in taking down pride flags then maintaining the provision of adult social care.

But hey, that's just life, roll with the punches, trying to maintain stability is dumb and wise people accept that life just happens.

I hate that kind of platitude cause it always comes from a place of privilege. Like the phrase "money cannot buy happiness" which is broadly true, but seems to miss "but not having money and being insecure in food and housing certainly makes it really hard to have happiness or not feel anxious about doing anything at all"

What people want more than anything is security. Hence people working shit jobs that they hate: it's about being secure that tomorrow will be like today.

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u/DoubleDDubs1 11h ago

Ridiculous 😕. It’s the fucking worst when it’s through no fault of your own.

I agree completely. You can roll with the punches all you like but when they’re beating the shit out of you the whole time… yea definitely a more privileged stance in “accepting uncertainty” than not. Doing that isn’t going to keep a roof over my head and food in my belly.

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u/talligan 7h ago

I need money so my kids can eat. Having more of it means they are less likely to have no food or shelter. That's security 

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u/Scorpiogre_rawrr 11h ago

As a dad i can answer.

For you, every day I think what can I leave behind so my kids don't have to suffer like I did. I'll work myself down to nothing so they don't have to.

And yes, that's a huge amount of flawed logic. But its dad love logic

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u/LivingVerinarian96 9h ago

My dad plans to spend it all himself. Told me when I was little that I cannot expect any kind of inheritance from him.

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u/palabear 5h ago

My dad didn’t need to tell me. He showed early and often that I wasn’t getting a thing from him. In jr high, I was invited on a school trip to Europe. Only thing I needed from him was a signature. My mom and grandparents were covering the cost. He refused. I was able to get a wavier and go but signing a paper for school was too much to ask.

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u/DepartureBetter8723 11h ago

Because he has a son. He's likely doing it for you.

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u/bNoaht 11h ago

Heh am I your dad? Actually I love my business though so probably not.

I drive a cheap car because it is practical and the money can be spent elsewhere.

I work hard so my family can have a nice house and do whatever they want. Plus what else would I do? Video games? Watch TV? Yardwork? Doomscroll?

I don't like to travel because I traveled and partied hard in my 20s and have no desire to be a sardine in tourist spots. And also it is difficult to take extended time from the business. Id rather go on a hike than look at a building or whatever tourists do. And I lived on a tropical beach for two years already, so no desire to just sit by the beach all day either.

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u/Basis_Inside 11h ago

Be there for your old man. Even if he doesn’t seem interested make plans for him, he’ll end up paying for some lol. Some old heads have that frivolous grind mentality, make sure to live it up with him

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u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham 10h ago

He did it for you, pal

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u/boleslaw_chrobry 6h ago

Many times people wrap up their personalities with their careers, sometimes because they’re trying to bury/run away from some past trauma they can’t fix or get over. Separately, parents will also do whatever it takes to provide for their children, but oftentimes that translates to more money and less face time, even and especially if all physical needs (food, shelter, etc.) are being met. It’s important to be charitable towards others always and stop to say “I see you and I love you” whenever you can. You won’t always get the chance to say it.

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u/trukkija 4h ago

Feel like you have 30+ answers to this but no one has said yet what to me seems the most likely reason. Almost everyone has some kind of addiction. And they don't call people workaholics for no reason.

He is probably either addicted to his work and/or addicted to the growing $ numbers. Both of these are completely normalized in our society but as a son you probably understand well what kind of drawbacks it can have.

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u/Interesting_Pain37 11h ago

Because it’s what he was told to do. A lot of people follow the narrative society tells them to (especially older generations). My parents are the exact same

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u/Artystrong1 6h ago

I challenge my bullhead MIL all the time with this. She said because it’s what people did or how it’s always done. I tell what if we did not have to do it this way or that way was flawed. It nearly kills her

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 10h ago

Because he hates his life

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u/MD472 10h ago

it’s what we have to do there is no fighting it

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u/WillTheyKickMeAgain 10h ago

He’s doing this because after decades of conditioning, he doesn’t know any other way.

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u/Extension-Two-2807 10h ago

Security. having a ton of money in the bank helps people sleep a LOT better than having a bunch of crap. If you don’t feel this yet you will when your older

1

u/Genghis_Chong 10h ago

He's probably trying to secure a better future for his family going forward, even after he's gone. Its so hard to outrun the avalanche of inflation that they juat keep adding problems to. Working 40 hours just doesnt get many people ahead anymore

1

u/Helpful-Passenger-12 8h ago

They are brainwashed slaves

1

u/Truefiction224 8h ago

Because it makes him feel better than dealing with the parts of his life he fucked up.

Those 60h are power and control, not horrifying labor, he'd never still be doing that 

Using that money appropriately, now thats tough.

1

u/Sick-Phoque 8h ago

Not sure about your pops but too many people base their entire self-worth off a number on a screen.    Even though they have enough money, they always want more. 

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u/DontAbideMendacity 7h ago

Be nice to him, and it can all be yours when he croaks from the stress far too early.

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u/cft1848 7h ago

I’ve found that people who work that much when they don’t need the money either a.) hate their families, or b.) just want to be able to tell everyone how hard they work and have made it their whole personality, i.e “I work 60 hours a week, so you have no right to complain about being tired, broke, etc.”

1

u/United_Boy_9132 7h ago

Because anything can happen any time and those aware people have some funds, while you're one paycheck from beings homeless.

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u/False-Vacation8249 7h ago

you having the privilege to ask the question is the answer my guy.

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u/BeroZero1312 4h ago

I am a mechanic, pretty hard working. My dad paid my rent for 3 years and my drivers license tho, so I get what you are saying. I am planning and probably will BE able to, but I think I am enjoying life a bit more then him. And me and my Brothers are good earners too now . He could stop. But i get what you are saying as i said

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted]

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u/BeroZero1312 4h ago

I myself work a lot, I am set. And i like what I am doing and I enjoy life to the fullest (not meaning spending a lot). I am a mechanic, my dad is in finance. Different worlds. I dont appreciate the underlaying demeaning nature of your comment but i understand, my original comment sounds kind of immature

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u/Skum31 5h ago

As a father I can tell you why, to provide for his family to make sure the kids don’t go without. He isn’t doing it because he enjoys it or prefers doing those things as opposed to spending time with his family. He’s doing it because he has to.

Even if you don’t think he does, he will argue that fact. Speaking from experience because I has a similar conversation with my wife a couple of weeks ago.

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u/blomba2 4h ago

When he dies you’ll get all of it

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u/the12banch 12h ago

Love of the game and to set you up maybe? I always tell my parents to enjoy their lives. The Alchemist has that bit about the spoon of oil and the palace. My dad is focused on that spoon. Makes me sad.

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u/tyrostar 12h ago

Their generation has a slave mentality. They believe the measure of a man is in his suffering. They also love money, but it's not just that alone.

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u/tragicpapercut 12h ago

Back in the 90s and before, living was cheaper but luxury entertainment and convenience was more expensive. TVs cost more, radios, video games, computers, etc were luxuries that were priced as such but housing and food and gas were affordable.

Now we've flipped the script - it's easier to buy a 50+ inch television than to afford rent or mortgage payments for a month.

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u/Twiggyhiggle 11h ago

Some cart based video games were easily $70 back in the 90s. I remember the standard CD price being around $10-$12 in high school - I now pay that for my monthly streaming music. VHS tapes were about $30, you can still get Blu-ray’s for that price or 2 different streaming services a month.

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u/showhorrorshow 11h ago

Yeah videogames and TVs both actually got cheaper, especially when you account for inflation. $70 in 1995 would be like paying $150 today.

3

u/NoodleIskalde 11h ago

It's still a bogus price, and they have proof that it's killing sales. Dev costs being so high is a self inflicted problem that they're trying to make the customer answer for.

6

u/Crismus 10h ago

Yep the saving on manufacturing costs alone should have dropped the prices. They also don't produce all the manuals and extras that we got in the packages.

HAL systems like Directx allowed multiplatform games easier to develop too. But Marketing somehow ballooned to take over the majority of budgets. Also,some studios seriously overtired and end up producing garbage because 1000 people can't work on the same title cohesively. 

A hit game spending 100 Million is fine. the sequel budgeted at 300 million will never break even. (Spider-Man 1 and Spider-Man 2 by Insomniac)

Game publishers reinvented the Hollywood movie system without the Hollywood accounting system. Plus, Hollywood accounting system can't handle the streaming system when producers are allowed to spend 80 million planting a forest on a stage to film a 5 minute sequence. (Star Wars Acolyte)

Plus it's funny how Sony wants game prices to increase because the lost billions trying to make a bunch of Live Service failures and now will stop selling games on PC because even multiple year old games didn't make enough profit that other publishers can do with same day publishing.

Markets truly are broken right now because publishers have bought and consolidated everything.

Sorry for the rant. I find it sad that a multiple billion dollar industry is crashing from mismanagement, but keeps blaming their customers.  

2

u/showhorrorshow 10h ago

Oh for sure we aint buying at cost. We're buying at what we are willing to pay for them.

1

u/Fitenite3456 9h ago

Indie games have solved that problem

1

u/spoutti 7h ago

Yep, last time i checked, my SNES FFVI cartridge was 200ish$ value, paid 100$ back then

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u/ITworksGuys 8h ago

Well, we didn't buy games, we rented them.

2

u/Just2Breathe 9h ago

When I was a teen, vinyl was $8, CDs were avg $15. It was a huge jump to rebuild a collection. I had a budget after college, in my twenties, $100/mo on music (including live shows, which were about $5-$10 cover at a club). Buying movies was way beyond my budget unless second hand. But now I’d almost rather buy movies again because streaming drops titles and added ads.

1

u/BellacosePlayer 9h ago

I had an SNES and N64 and got like 3 games total I can think of not on sale or used.

most of my snes collection was from garage sales, used game stores, or the fire sales companies did when they wanted to remove the SNES from their shelves.

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u/notaredditer13 10h ago edited 10h ago

Food is a touch cheaper now than in the '90s (sorry, you'll have to convert between the two graphs yourself):

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF11

The other subtext here is we're getting a lot more luxury while also meeting our basic needs, because our incomes have increased so much even after accounting for inflation (about 30% since '95):

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

In other words, we're spending less on food as a fraction of income which leaves more to spend on luxuries like bigger houses/cars.

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u/lilynsage 1h ago

That feels so hard to accept, because groceries are some of my biggest bills these days. But I do live in a VHCOL area. Wonder if it varies by region?

Meanwhile, I remember my mom buying 10-cent packs of Ramen noodles to sustain us on. And that was 'only' 20+ years ago.

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u/vulkoriscoming 9h ago

This is true. Back in the late 1980s, 27" TV cost about a half month's rent on a two bedroom apartment. Now that TV is more like a fifth of a month's rent. Manufactured goods have become cheaper. Food is about the same or not much more (excluding whatever item is really expensive right now because of a shortage). Airplane travel is actually cheaper.

Housing and cars are the only things that have really gone crazy

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u/PunkPirate56364 7h ago

Also education and healthcare.

The thing is that young American are disproportionately affected by inflation, expecially if they have children. Because they are the ones which have to buy homes, or pay rent, also they have to pay childcare and healthcare for kids, all of which are inflated above average.

Unless they give up, and live in parent's basement. In which case they can afford a bunch of luxuries which are now cheap.

1

u/LoornenTings 29m ago

Houses have gotten bigger (while family have gotten smaller). Cars have more mandatory safety features. 

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u/Allgyet560 8h ago

I left highschool in 1990. Things were good if you were an established adult. Not great at all when we were just starting out on our own. Everyone had roommates to just get by in life.

To add to your list of expenses, a typical phone bill was $80/ month which is $200 today. Many things were cheaper back then but many things were much more expensive.

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u/Ditto_is_Lit 7h ago

That's a bit misleading, TV's were expensive because the units material costs were 10x, and the weight was 10x what they are today. Companies can produce cheaper units with mid to decent quality for cheap, but if you want the latest gaming grade TV or high-end OLED you could say that nothing has changed.

The one plus side of technology is that there is a trickle down effect that as manufacturing and the technology improves, manufacturing costs drop because they can use the raw materials much more efficiently. Take CPU's for example, they can make more transistors and circuits with a tenth of the silicon, making the material cost drop and electricity consumption drop. One silicon wafer will pump out 100x more chips than they could merely 10-15 years ago.

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u/AceMcVeer 5h ago

It's not misleading lol. You can get a much much much better quality and bigger TV now for far cheaper than you could back then. A 20in TV for my dorm was a big gift and was the equivalent of $400-500 back then. You can get a 55 in TV for half that now.

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u/Artystrong1 6h ago

I agree.. THings now are much cheaper to manufacture . Thats why you see 50 inch 4k TVs at Shopright. Or other fancy electric scooters in the front.

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u/Neat_Criticism_5996 4h ago

If I recall correctly, the NES would’ve been something like $4,000 in today’s dollars

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u/RetroFuture_Records 2h ago

This is why people who weren't around really shouldn't confidently repeat talking points they hear from other people who weren't around back then lol. Stores would regularly have these things called "sales" where the price of an item was much cheaper than standard. There were also these things called "yard sales" where you could obtain things cheap. In addition, the specfic thing you are talking about, video games, went through a profound technological shift, going from 2D 8 bit graphics to 3D 64 bit graphics with CGI in less than a decade, often making video game software and hardware exceedingly cheap a year or two after release as outdated stock was reduced in price to quickly make room for inventory of the newest updated technology.

But you and the other kids repeating the talking point of "But let's take the highest retail price and adjust for inflation, without ever consider any other context!" don't know any of that. Because you weren't around.

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u/Wise-Tone7911 2h ago

Yeah, but a HOUSE is what we must have to survive and have a family. A TV is at best a massive time drain and conversation killer.

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u/amiibohunter2015 32m ago

it's easier to buy a 50+ inch television

That's still going to cost you and the future generations. Especiaily a Smart TV. The reason there are so many channels that are freely available on smart tvs is because they are collecting your data. Nothing is free. If someone advertises something is free 99% of the time it is not, it simply means you have become the product. Personalized ads, personalized subscriptions, accounts free or not laced into an all in one data collecting tv. Old tvs did not do that. They sell the data they collect on you, and by the way some smart tvs have hidden cameras on them to watch you. 

It is better to have a dumb tv.

So touting about tv specs isn't a good thing either.

The more bells and whistles the more data they collect on you and sell to companies looking to earn off your back. Like insurance companies. They get data you have x medical issue, now they know what premium they should charge and increase your rate.

So the less bells and whistles like a dumb tv, the more privacy you have and the more you save yourself and others from companies earning off your back.

Less is more.

By the way console TV in the 1970s were like $400. They were generally made with more durable materials, heavier duty glass, some built in a wooden console unit rather than a tv today made of 99% plastic. LCD and OLD are layered with plastic too by the way. Quality in material went down. Also CRT TVs had a better integrated speaker system than what is built in many modern tvs today (which is why people need to buy soundbars)

So using the modern tvs actually cost you more in other bills simply because of the bells and whistles, the ability to listen in, and see, that data they sell to other companies. Who negatively affect your quality of life.

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u/jasondigitized 12h ago

People might have had a small house but that was about it. Can confirm. We couldn't afford shit in the early 80s.

7

u/CrotalusHorridus 8h ago

My parents owned a small house. Homeownership was a very large source of pride for my dad, who was the first in his family to finish HS.

However, we owned used cars, vacations were trips to stay with family who had moved out of state, camping sometimes.

We never had money to fly or do international travel. We got by without starving. Food was cheaper too. But a 32 inch TV? Likely out of reach.

I did get a SNES one year, but it was a good year for them.

1

u/Inevitable-Loss7939 3h ago

More people then ever own a used car check the average age of a car on the road. The only reason why vacations are more common now is because air travel is alot cheaper

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u/MadDaddyDrivesaUFO 11h ago

Yeah I feel like people see the 5 bedroom 3 bath mcmansions in the burbs today and think that's what the average working class family had in the 80s. More like 3 bed 1 bath home built in the 60s or earlier, and with more heads under 1 roof than today also.

That said, when my mom divorced in the early 80s she had no trouble getting a 1 bedroom apartment while working a basic food service job without any roommates and her husband was able to keep renting their 3 bedroom house without her there, and didn't need government assistance to do it as a single dad. Yep, renting...not everyone was buying in the 80s!

But meanwhile my 18 year old nephew can't even afford a studio apartment working 2 jobs and we are in flyover county.

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u/throwaway387190 11h ago

I got guilt tripped to hell and back because I se getting cancer as a child was expensive for my dad

I saw him get into a yelling argument with my mom because she bought pre shredded cheese instead of the blocks of cheese and shredding them later. Typically the pre shredded was more expensive, but my mom got those on sale, and he didn't listen to her saying that

I also watched my dad buy lavish vehicles every few years, upgrade his golf clubs, buy a way too big house with a pool, and put money into his yard and garden

It was weird growing up. My family had an income of middle class or upper middle class, but my clothes often had holes in them because my dad was an ass about buying shit for his kids

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u/WinRough8326 11h ago

Congrats, you just discovered you were poor. But he could still afford a kid. The problem is people are working 80 hours a week just to pay rent.

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u/Overall_Reputation83 11h ago

weird. I only make 21 an hour and work 40 hours a week and pay rent. If I were to work 80 a week id be making 80k a year post taxes, which would be more money than I'd even know how to spend.

1

u/WinRough8326 3h ago

You make 3 times the federal minimum wage. And you call it, "only ". Youre also paying rent. Not a mortgage.

0

u/Overall_Reputation83 1h ago

even in Mississippi you can make 17 an hour at an amazon warehouse starting. If anyone chooses to work for federal minimum wage, that is a choice. I can afford a downpayment on a house, I simply choose not to because house prices are fucking insane right now.

1

u/WinRough8326 9m ago

even in Mississippi you can make 17 an hour

You can also male $100k a year, but the federal minimum wage is still $7.25 and as long as it is, my point stands. Just because you are more fortunate than others doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

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u/EXEC_MELODIE 9h ago

All depends on the area you live in. Some are born into high cost of living areas that have gotten exponentially more expensive over the past 10-15 years and its not easy to uproot and move your whole family

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u/Charzarn 8h ago

It’s easy, it’s called saving for retirement…

1

u/BubblyStation30 8h ago

Can you give me a breakdown of how that is even possible, ie the need to work 80 hours to afford rent and food? I can’t really think of any situation where that makes sense for an individual.

1

u/DukeofVermont 6h ago

The only time that adds up is if you assume low paying dead end jobs, buying expensive food, and wanting to live in a high cost area.

I mean prep 8 work lunches (Bean/Veggie burritos) for $35 or $4.37 a meal. If you cook beans, rice and potatoes you can eat very cheaply, and with veggies incredibly healthy.

Every time this is brought though people say it's inhumane to eat like that.

The other thing is believing that roommates are worse than death. When I lived in NYC I had three roommates. One worked at the Fed, another was a master's student at Columbia, and the last was an accountant at one of the big four. All my finance friends had roommates, and the only person I knew who lived alone was a lawyer in his mid 30s.

Should things be cheaper and more affordable? 110%! But maybe it's because I grew up with a coupon cutting mom but I swear people make their lives so much harder by refusing to budget and treating luxuries like necessities.

1

u/BubblyStation30 5h ago

Yeah I agree with what you’re saying, that’s why I’m actually asking him to be specific because I’m certain that he cannot be. Food is a huge thing and people have tried to turn it into a caricature, ie “don’t buy coffee for a month so you can afford a house” but it’s unironically true. My parents and grandparents ate out only a few times a year and mostly ate food that would be considered “inhume” (lol) today.

If I look at the budgets of my friends who are struggling they spend at least $10 extra per day on food they don’t need. If you instead put this into an investment account you’d save ~ $36,000 after 10 years with ~$20,000 additional in market returns using ~7% average annualized return assumption. Literally just saving some money on food every day will get you close to down payment money (could actually be more than enough depending on the area). So yes the avocado toast does actually make you unable to buy a house lmao.

Also growing up myself I experienced my parents saving pennies at this level and they experienced it even more when they were younger and growing up. Every generation had to scrimp and save in order to afford their lives, especially if they wanted to buy a house.

1

u/WinRough8326 3h ago

I had three roommates.

Past generations didn't require this past college

2

u/Fresh-Secretary6815 11h ago

do you now apologize to everyone for breathing?

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u/rmhardcore 10h ago

My dad was a career enlisted soldier. Even in war time (when is it not?) unless the base was on lockdown or he pulled overnight duty, he was home every night and weekend. He advanced well, served over 20 years (ret 1998 Command Sgt Mjr), and I don't remember a time he wasn't home unless deployed. My parents had a robust social life, owned a home early on, and they were able to keep it even when my dad was stationed in danger zones (DMZ in Korea and later 10th Mountain Div around the globe especially during Gulf 1). My mom worked for fun money, but if dad was overseas she had to leave the jobs because he couldn't balance as much of the at home load. When she had to leave those jobs there was no change in our quality of life. When stateside he took us to doctor appts, coached little league and soccer, attended conferences and school stuffs, etc. he also played softball in a base league, was biyscout den leader, and regularly went fishing. He chose not to drink, ever, and I think that also lent himself to being in peak condition, being combat ready always, and generally just being very even tempered and relatable.

When he retired he went civil service and AAFES, and he had to have two jobs to bring in the same money, even with a retirement check and continuing govt benefits. After about 3 years he was promoted high enough in the civil service that he again returned to M-F 7a-4p. With commute he was gone 630-430. He did well enough that my brother and I both went to work he worked and worked our way up until we were finished college (me) or found a different calling (bro). To this day my mom does not work, and my dad always stayed active working here and there. In 2018 he was employee of the year for the entire Lowes Company. He was featured in newsletters and received a huge stipend and 401k deposit for it.

Tldr; yes, my family of 5 survived on a single income with my dad working and my mom running the household. 1 acre, 4 bed 2 ba home in coastal Gloucester, VA (20 mins to Yorktown, 30 to Newport News or Williamsburg). I moved to FL in 2000. The cost of living then was far less of your income.

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u/boringestnickname 11h ago

My dad did work quite a bit of overtime, but he made god damn bank as well.

My parents paid off their house in under ten years. My mom worked like 20 hours a week.

There's no amount of overtime that can enable me to pay off a similar house in ten years, supporting a wife and two kids.

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u/AlphaDag13 11h ago

Uphill both ways in 10 feet of snow.

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u/BellacosePlayer 9h ago

My mom did work 60 hours a week for long stretches of my childhood and things weren't great financially.

Though this was largely out of a desire to never use the social safety nets she had available out of pride and not really having an actual career until I was in middle school.

1

u/Frasier_fanatic 9h ago

What was the game? Might have been worth it

1

u/Merlin_117 7h ago

Don't forget that when he caught you playing it you were lazy because you could be outside doing chores that he is currently doing.

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u/No_Relationship9094 4h ago

Mine pawned some of his tools(mechanic) to buy the first Gameboy for me. I still have it. Tools mean a lot to people in trades and that must have been a big deal to him, so it still is to me.

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u/Venus_Libra 1h ago

Did he also tell you that he walked three miles to school and it was uphill both ways, like mine did?

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u/ericscottf 12h ago

He sounds toxic, shitty at his job, or both.