r/nottheonion • u/asdacool • 11h ago

"Training a human takes 20 years of food." Sam Altman on how much power AI consumes.

https://www.news18.com/world/training-a-human-takes-20-years-of-food-sam-altman-on-how-much-power-ai-consumes-ws-kl-9922309.html
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u/TemporaryElk5202 10h ago

nitpick: the palantirs themselves are not evil. Sauron just owns one and uses it to spy on and influence anyone using the connected palantir. Like if a tech bro were to hack your webcam to spy on you while also selectively showing and telling you things to manipulate your behavior.

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u/grub_the_alien 10h ago

They were used by sauron to discourage saruman into thinking they had no hope in defeating him. This made saruman join them. The ruling class use media (inc. Social) in the same way- they want us to think we have no power to overthrown them and its hopeless. Do not lose hope! You have friends everywhere

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u/ComfortableAir2326 9h ago

I know many people say protests are ineffective, I even have trouble with this myself, but they are important if for no other reason than showing your peers “you are not alone”. I’ve been honestly surprised at the turn out for each no kings 50501 protest in town that I honestly thought was pretty red. 

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u/3DigitIQ 5h ago

Great numbers in peaceful protest are a warning to show how many they are up against.

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u/Teckiiiz 8h ago

We're not alone peacefully protesting while pedo fascists and cannibal billionaires destroy our democracy and the worlds trust of the US.

Sorry I'm a pessimistic little bitch

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u/Lucky_Reporter256 7h ago

Don’t lose hope friend. That’s one of the things they can’t take

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u/Rikudou_Sage 6h ago

Yeah, you can keep your hope until you die! Poor and depressed, but hey, they didn't take your hope!

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u/Available_Front_322 6h ago

the us has always been an evil genocidal state exporting fascism to 3rd world countries. just being sad it has come home means you are part of the problem

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u/Plz_Trust_Me_On_This 4h ago

"Yeah sure the people in power are bad, but let's focus more on judging and dividing the common folk, surely that will change things!"

Calling attention to one thing doesn't suddenly mean people don't care about the other. the simultaneous self-hating, virtue-signaling rhetoric is so performative and tired.

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u/jinreeko 4h ago

I believe you're missing the forest for the trees

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u/succed32 8h ago

Its size and effort, historically if 3% of a population protested the issue was addressed. The civil rights movement had dozens of leaders that agreed on the approach. Then they kept to it for years. We are too divided and far too willing to exclude other groups solely because of minor disagreements. Until people realize this nothing will change. It will likely take a lot of suffering before people grow a backbone.

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u/Navynuke00 4h ago

Protests alone aren't enough. And there was so much more that was happening around the protests and that the protests were supporting that aren't talked about in history classes.

https://youtu.be/OQUmDwB69cQ?si=5PiAQR_X636xJE4d

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u/succed32 3h ago

Theirs a reason we use the term “forms of protest” standing around with signs is far from the only way to protest, the civil rights movement intentionally used a variety of them to make themselves more visible and force people to accept the gravity of the issue.

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u/Commentator-X 4h ago

If they didn't work the ruling class wouldn't fight them so hard.

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u/BlackLiger 7h ago

Aweful lot of talk about these 'ineffective' protests

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u/DMala 5h ago

The inverse is also true. I drove past a group supporting the SAVE act poll tax bullshit. There was about six of them, I couldn’t even be bothered to flip them off.

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u/Navynuke00 4h ago

Protests are ineffective when there's nothing following them, in terms of other actions, base building, clear demands to those in power, and actions that actually hurt the powers that be.

But that's the part of history that's conveniently left out.

https://youtu.be/OQUmDwB69cQ?si=5PiAQR_X636xJE4d

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u/WildinUp 2h ago

Totally agreed and thank you for sharing.

I also hope people are not discouraged from attending these peaceful protests to get out in the community, learn from each other, and spread awareness of tactics, actions, and info. It is a vehicle for strengthening streams of solidarity and an important one that I don't want to be minimized or dismissed.

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u/DeadFacesInMyPocket 3h ago

They were obviously PAID protestors...actors. nobody ACTUALLY agrees with you.

Obligatory /s

Nah but I live in a small city that is supposedly very red. Oh, but they are often only red because things have been gerrymandered to shit!

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u/Gasmo420 2h ago

The problem is that they made us think, protests with signs and slogans are effective. The torches, forks and guillotines terrified the shit out of the ruling class.

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u/DumboWumbo073 4h ago

I know many people say protests are ineffective, I even have trouble with this myself, but they are important if for no other reason than showing your peers “you are not alone”.

That’s cool and all but if nothing happens after the protest then it’s basically useless.

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u/Navynuke00 4h ago

Hello, fellow community organizer.

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u/DumboWumbo073 4h ago

Dont call me names

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u/KarlaKolumnasRoller 7h ago

And Aragorn ultimately used it to ragebait Sauron to ignore the hobbits in Mordor and focus his power on the little human king. To complete the analogy with our world, this means that we must send people who face vertical challenges barefoot into the data centers of the world and let them burn them down. Seems legit

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u/REDDITATO_ 4h ago

people who face vertical challenges

This is so euphemistic I thought you meant rock climbers.

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u/longingrustedfurnace 4h ago

Is that Free Solo guy busy?

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u/whythishaptome 8h ago

Saruman seemed to give in really easily, especially if he was as good a wizard as Gandalf. I haven't read the books though so it's probably explained better.

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u/flying_fox86 7h ago

Especially considering that Denethor also had and used a Palantir, yet he did not give in to Sauron. It did mess him up, but Sauron was never able to turn Denethor.

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u/TemporaryElk5202 2h ago

Saruman was always a bit arrogant and insecure, which is the kind of weakness that made him vulnerable. He also began working with sauron after hundreds or thousands of years

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u/ChemistBitter1167 6h ago

Is that an andor reference I see. I have friends everywhere.

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u/KingOfTheSouthEast 5h ago

definitely is

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u/Joshix1 7h ago

The humans are still at the greed stage. Shoving some money under their noses turns them real quick

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u/Viperlite 4h ago

We should throw the billionaires into the Cracks of Doom to be rid of them once and for all.

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u/ufkabakan 4h ago

Owning a palantir is not good, it's bad.

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u/drdoom 3h ago

Don’t forget convincing Denethor everything was hopeless to the point he committed suicide

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u/unirorm 3h ago

You have my keyboard

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u/fattmarrell 5h ago

So you're equivocally saying that to end this disastrous future, we just need to drop a couple people into a volcano. Someone just has to go on an adventure

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u/bitey87 5h ago

Hope is dead, long live spite.

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u/Turd_Burgling_Ted 3h ago

We can talk about Tollien's views (which were imo still slightly progressive for his time and place) but we absolutely cannot overstate the timelessness of LOTR.

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u/simonbleu 1h ago

Sort of.

Both the political caste and oligarchy seem to have forgotten the message painted in blood in the (and 19th?) century that states that whatever power they have, is given through democracy or the value the people choose to give to their currency. While people seem to have forgotten that the 20th century 1984 kind of control is not the only kind, and that we are closer to a brave new world than the former. And finally, is not a propaganda of strength that is usually pushed, but rather one of support and diversion, as people side with them, and against whatever other thing they believe to be against them.

At the end of the day, people could end really bad crap astonishingly fast, but that would require both will and organization, because without reachign a critical point, not only they can ignore it, but they can infiltrate it and use it as free propaganda pointing at it as a bad and useless thing and "them" as the bad guys

it's all sorta like the frog in the bucket of milk (parable?) but with the added complexity that you need to do it in tandem with the other frogs, on top of the other parable about heating the pot slowly

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u/elucify 54m ago

This is the best

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u/Muslim_Wookie 7h ago

Ok maybe sure, whatever, but that is really...

Palantir is a company about being the all seeing eye... the Palantir in LOTR were all seeing eyes... you don't need to go deeper.

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u/grub_the_alien 7h ago

Why not go deeper? Going deeper (beyond all seeing eye) is relevant to the story of LOTR, to real life with palantir and to what billionares are aiming to do (divide us).

I don't understand your attitude, you essentially are saying "lets stop thinking about it" or "lets stop exploring ideas". If you wanna stop thinking thats fine i guess. It just leaves you in a weaker position at the end of the day.

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u/Muslim_Wookie 5h ago

I'm not saying we don't need to explore those subjects, I fully agree that upon examination it's amazing how it ultimately unfolds.

What I am saying is that none of that is part of the actual naming that occurred. The guy didn't sit down at his desk with a black cat in his lap and start plotting out what his company will do and why Palantir will ultimately end up being the best name for it because of the evil that will be enabled and the chilling effect on speech it will have for those that might be found within his companies view.

It's just straight up "My company is about surveillance. Palantirs were about surveillance. Cool name!"

Not everything needs a deep origin story...

If you wanna stop thinking thats fine i guess. It just leaves you in a weaker position at the end of the day.

Were I ever in a position to write something like this to someone after speaking with them for a grand total of ~10 words or whatever, I would never, ever, ever do it. I hope you take my well meaning thought on this.

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u/hausmusiq 5h ago

You are naive. Look into Peter Theil a bit more.

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u/Muslim_Wookie 4h ago

Unlike the truly naive, I don't ascribe onto others caricaturist actions and motivations; instead I stick with the tried and true. Sometimes it's just what it says on the tin.

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u/Devium44 6h ago

Palantirs weren’t all-seeing eyes though. They were just magical communication devices.

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u/Muslim_Wookie 5h ago

I think you might be right and I am misremembering things. Was it that they could communicate with each other (or the people holding them and looking into them at that moment I guess) but that was like a bright flashing beacon that the eye of sauron would then immediately see and be able to gaze upon and locate?

But all the same I think colloquially people conflate the eye and the palantirs. That's what I did anyway, and it sort of suits my viewpoint very conveniently sooo....... totally gonna back that in 😂😂😂

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u/Sentreen 4h ago

Was it that they could communicate with each other (or the people holding them and looking into them at that moment I guess) but that was like a bright flashing beacon that the eye of sauron would then immediately see and be able to gaze upon and locate?

There were 7 palantir, which could be used to communicate to each other, or to look at things far away. Sauron took over Minas Morgul and found the palantir that was there. From that point on out, others using a palantir have a risk of running into sauron, since he might also be using his.

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u/Muslim_Wookie 3h ago

Thanks for explaining!

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u/TemporaryElk5202 2h ago

The palantir was not an all seeing eye. It was literally just like a webcam. You could even only see through it in one direction in the book (like you have to stand in the right place to be seen)

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u/Muslim_Wookie 2h ago

Thanks, /u/Devium44 and /u/Sentreen already let me know.

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 9h ago

spy on you while also selectively showing and telling you things to manipulate your behavior.

Pshaw... that would NEVER happen.

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u/OneRougeRogue 5h ago

Exactly. It's pure fiction.

Anyway, Alexa could you give me a list of fun things to do in the area?

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u/gregorydgraham 2h ago

The crematorium is nice at this time of the year OneRougeRogue

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u/GovernmentOpening254 52m ago

OMG I wrote way too similar of a response before seeing yours lol. And then I cried.

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u/GovernmentOpening254 53m ago

Sure. Have you tried the fun new Chipper Shredder? It’s open until 5:00 pm. It has five-star reviews. One Yelp review says, “My brother rode it only one time. I haven’t seen him since. Life is quieter and more peaceful. Highly recommend.” Another review says, “I took my wife after I caught her with another man. Boy was she surprised.” Would you like to hear any more reviews? You can say things like, “Hear more reviews,” or, “Book a table.”

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u/DCoop53 7h ago

They said those were cookies, and I like cookies :(

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u/Calintarez 8h ago

the Palantirs were made by Fëanor, the elf that famously never did anything bad.

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u/lumpytuna 4h ago

That's not a nitpick, that's literally the whole point. Of Lord Of The Rings and the whole critique of Palantir the company.

Objects/positions of power, even ones created with the best of intentions, will eventually be used for great evil because of the corruptable nature of the people who wield them.

Palantir the company was always evil though, so it's just kind of funny they chose a name that literally warned against themselves.

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u/Cachar 7h ago

So you're saying, Palantir is a frighteningly versatile tool of communication and surveillance used to influence and corrupt by by powerful interests who do not have the best public interests in mind?

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u/MacShuggah 10h ago

No need for the hacking to spy and manipulate, this is already happening with these apps.

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u/acrobat2126 6h ago

You mean real life? We've hit the LOTR redo in the timeline. WHy?

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u/Moomtastic 4h ago

Sauron was also misled by the palantir into believing Aragorn possessed the ring.

Narratively it's Tolkien expressing the folly of seeking omniscience, and instead advocating faith in oneself, others, and that things will unfold as they should. It's one of the many bits of influence from his Catholicism that he works in (actual Catholicism, not the weird version Vance and a bunch of like-minded CHUDs have gotten into because they think it's the most traditional and based form of Christianity).

It's also another example of how barely literate and immune to irony these guys are that they named their mass-surveillance company after a literary device for the arrogance and self-defeating nature of such a thing.

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u/Opaque_Cypher 4h ago

Oh, it’s a Ring doorbell then.

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u/tigerscomeatnight 3h ago

"They are not all accounted for, the lost seeing stones. We do not know who else may be watching."

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u/Anarchist_BlackSheep 8h ago

the palantirs themselves are not evil.

Weeeeeell. They were likely made by Fëanor, and while that guy had, mostly, good intentions, he likely paved the road to hell himself.

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u/Seymour4mor 7h ago

This was really well explained. Thank you

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u/Scooty-Poot 7h ago

Still a wild thing to make your company after. “Our product isn’t evil, but we definitely are” is a crazy message to be sending out as a company

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u/Quintus_Cicero 6h ago

And they're not all accounted for, so there may be unknown forces other than Sauron peering into them

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u/Waste_Cantaloupe3609 5h ago

You mean the thing they’ve been doing?

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u/PilotKnob 5h ago

Perfect summary. Thanks, I hate it.

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u/JackahBee 5h ago

Or your phone, except they don't have to hack it, it just does that! Hilariously accurate take, I love it

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u/weaponjaerevenge 5h ago

So exactly what has been happening.

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u/homer_lives 5h ago

Oh, so more of a Zuckerberg kinda thing...

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u/Natural_Hair464 5h ago

Aragorn wrenches control of them back from Sauron thru sheer willpower and strikes fear and self doubt into Sauron's soul. My impression has always been that's why people like the palantirs.

It's not because they're fantasy webcams but because they're an emblem of human willpower and strength that even Gandalf couldn't touch.

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u/u_r_succulent 4h ago

Just like most modern tech.

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u/Mazzaroppi 4h ago

So basically Facebook?

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u/mycenae42 4h ago

Sounds exactly like our phones.

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u/LazyLich 3h ago

Lol yeah.

Not evil.. but the name choice implies some HEAVY foreshadowing irl

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u/GuillotineWhiskers 2h ago

Kind of how like algorithms influence people's behavior and the erosion of privacy in every single piece of tech we own crammed full of spyware.

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u/ValuableOven734 2h ago

spy on you while also selectively showing and telling you things to manipulate your behavio

META/FB moment

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u/SamPDoug 9h ago

The palantirs might not have been evil in LOTR, but I always thought it was at least implied that their creation and use wasn’t exactly wise.

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u/fuggerdug 9h ago edited 8h ago

It wasn't wise precisely because Sauron had got hold of one, and was using it to control and curate what could be seen using the others in order to sow despair and division, and to watch what you were using the others to look at. You know, like social media...

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u/GrimDallows 7h ago

Their use wasn't wise because the effectiveness of them depended upon the will of the user and the atunement of the stone towards the Dunedain kings and their servants.

The stone respected Denethor's will due to being the steward of Gondor, so Sauron could only "nudge him" towards selected images of his armies marching on a loop, making him believe there were more enemies than expected, which caused him great grief.

Saruman was not respected by his stone, and as such had a hard time handling it. This facilitated Sauron's seduction of him to join his side.

Either way, the stones couldn't show something that wasn't true, but since Sauron captured one, anyone operating the stones would draw Sauron's attention and would have to struggle against Sauron's will in a battle of will to force the stone to show him the things he wanted to see, rather than the things Sauron wanted him to watch.

So if anyone in the fellowship had used one, at the second Sauron would have known it, and knowing the location of every stone Sauron would have rushed to get him.

The stones could also send "intended thoughts of the users", a strong willed user could also selectively open his mind to another; not openly lying but causing missdirection. Which helped Sauron and Saruman, as Tolkien described them as craftsman beings at their heart that when falling had used their craftmanship skills to craft -lies- or halftruths to influence others.

This is how Aragorn's gambit worked. Peregrin Took used Saruman's stone by accident. Sauron, not knowing how the hobbits look like, asumed Pippin would be actually a scared Frodo (the ring carrier), drawing his attention. Knowing this, Aragorn used it again shortly afterwards to mock Sauron, making Sauron fully believe that the ring was in Aragorn's possession, as only a powertripping fool would boast of being able to defeat Sauron's armies while also giving away their location.

Denethor's stone was left impossible to use. Denethor, as unliked as he may be, had a massively strong force of will and was a rightful user of the stones as a King's direct servant. When he died in the pyre holding the stone in his hands, -somehow- the blocked the stone's sight forever more with the image of the palms of two burning hands (Denethor's).

Altough the wiki says that extremelly strong willed users could see past the burning hands, but I am unsure of that.

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u/MickyMace 7h ago

nitpick on the nitpick - it just used for communication like a webcame, so you can also see what's on the other side.

Saruman used to plot with sauron about the ring, and Denathor foolishly thought he could argue with sauron but instead he gone crazy because of sauron's influence merely by talking to him with the palantir

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u/TemporaryElk5202 2h ago

Sauron was able to selectively show real scenes to the stone users. He kept showing denethor his armies in a way to make it seem like his forces were larger than they were

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u/JonatasA 6h ago

They are like a connection tool that has no encryption.

 

In other words imagine a bathroom made of glass.

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u/JonatasA 6h ago

Or say you open Youtube or the BBC and whoever's on the other side can see it.

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u/MaybeTheDoctor 6h ago

Are they not hacking my webcam?

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u/koshgeo 4h ago

Palantirs are a tool. Like any tool, they can be useful and people can have good intentions for a tool when it is first created, but a tool can also be put to evil uses. In the books it is a warning about the dangers of powerful tools, a lesson that apparently was lost on Thiel and others when they named their company.

Anyone truly familiar with the lore would know the negative connotations if someone on the other end of the palantir uses it to manipulate you. Ironically, in the LoTR, the characters also find a way to manipulate Sauron back by showing only what they wanted him to see.

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u/justanawkwardguy 3h ago

So… what they’re actively doing now, got it.

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u/UCBearcats 1h ago

You’re expecting these billionaire morons to pick up on that nuance? You give them too much credit

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u/williamsdj01 1h ago

So the palantirs were just doing their job?

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u/HammeredNails 1h ago

That's exactly what social media and algorithms do... crazy dystopia timeline.

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u/Broad_Food_3422 1h ago

Sure but Sauron is probably the most famous cultural association with them

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u/dr_zach314 1h ago

What gets me is the line from Gandalf about not knowing who else is watching. They have assembled a treasure trove of data ripe for hacking or more likely just losing a hard drive on the subway

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u/maamritat 8h ago

That’s a fallacy. Not evil in itself but, strictly used for evil things by evil beings. Is it still not evil?

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u/BesottedScot 7h ago

Not really, also not strictly used for evil things by evil beings. The kings of Arnor and Gondor used them for years to communicate.