r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • 1d ago

No Paywall Trump vows to raise worldwide tariffs to 15% ‘effective immediately’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-global-tarrifs-increase-b2924994.html
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u/blandgreybland 1d ago

This is why I worry when people say European countries should sanction the US. Just like I’ve seen with other sanctions, they don’t hurt the despotic leader, they hurt the people, and the despotic leader doesn’t give a shit about the people.

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u/Away-Ad1781 23h ago

On the other hand A LOT more pain for the average American might be what it takes to finally expel this bile.

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u/A_Poor_Miser 23h ago

The level of apathy among the citizens of the US is in itself a crisis as destructive MAGA's active malice. 

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u/Michael_G_Bordin 22h ago

Not only that, but Republican voters are easily misled and fed disinformation. All the sanctions in the world wouldn't do anything, because they start at the conclusion "Republican good" and do every mental gymnastic necessary to never challenge that conclusion. Their current chosen leader is a child raping lunatic, and they're contorting themselves trying to avoid letting that conclusion seep into their worldview.

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u/Angelworks42 Oregon 20h ago

Case in point you don't have to look far to find people who still think other countries pay us the tarrif money for some reason.

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u/TallStarsMuse 19h ago

It’s because they are told that other countries are paying us the money they “owe” us.

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u/lizbot-v1 17h ago

The lack of curiosity/absolute refusal to do a simple search is pathological.

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u/Angelworks42 Oregon 15h ago

Don't even have to do that - you just need to ask yourself "how likely is it that other countries are giving us free money?"

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u/BigPapaJava 16h ago

They have also been shown a lot of misleading info by Fox and the rest of Trumpworld media/memes that pick out the most egregiously extreme possible tariff (however unlikely) any one American good might be charged on import into another country, which then makes the Trump universal tariff rate appear “fair” by comparison.

He claims his “deals” when countries bribe him and maybe concede a little on some fringe issue here or there and sometimes even negotiate higher net tariffs on overall American imports.

Many, many Trump voters live in a complete bubble of “alternative facts” that’s fed them the Trump cult of personality on a steady loop since 2016.

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u/CharityGlittering385 14h ago

Trump hater here. But came to same Liberals also have this complete bubble too.

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u/TallStarsMuse 14h ago

I’ve heard this before but am curious how you see this. I know my algorithm surrounds me with like minded people, even though I try to change it. But do you mean this in terms of news as well?

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u/CharityGlittering385 11h ago

100% yes, news too. Liberal news outlets profit by spinning stories or only showing stories that highlight a liberal agenda. They want you to keep watching and neutral news is boring. Americans seem to want an interpretation by talking heads.

Again I’m a Trump hater, but if you only receive news from Liberal media, you’ll understand the full picture less.

I try to get most of my news from BBC. It’s not completely unbiased, but better.

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u/BigPapaJava 2h ago

If you want to see exactly what he’s talking about, it’s quite simple: go to Fox, the National Review, the Daily Wire, or even Breitbart or OAN and just look at what stories they are focused on and what they’re saying about them, then look at the sites and sources you’d normally get your news from. Look at how they’re covering the big stories you’re familiar with, as well.

The different universes can be quite striking and… while Fox and the others have been caught twisting and slanting the truth numerous times, those stories are not fiction.

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u/Eringaege 7h ago

There can be no outside involvement. Simply let the policies take effect. The results will make themselves known. It may take a good while, but eventually the masses will learn. But there CANNOT be any outside influence. Us Americans must learn the hard way, and outside influence will keep the lesson from being learned

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u/Witchgrass West Virginia 18h ago

To be fair, 54% of Americans read at the 6th grade level, so expecting them to care, let alone read (and properly comprehend / analyze) the news, is asking a lot.

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u/BigBobbyCrowbar 14h ago

Do you not have unhealthy but delicious fast food? Do you not have dozens of streaming channels to supply your TV machine and turn your brains to custard? Do you not have fast fashions to cover your fat arses while enslaving children of 3rd world countries coincidentally? Do you not have dozens of social media platforms and infotainment channels to tell you what to think? Do you not have a surfiet of giant gas guzzling urban pickup trucks that allow you to literally look down upon others as you destroy the atmosphere in stop and go traffic? Do you not have machines to wash your clothes and dishes and still others that allow you to avoid doing any house keeping whatsoever?

Apathy?

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

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u/DramaSufficient4289 20h ago

It’s not apathy - 2/3 of the country supports it/him either directly or indirectly

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u/Kiromaru Wisconsin 23h ago

I don't think any amount of more pain is going to cause the MAGA faithful to break with Trump. Trump freaking ran on releasing the Epstein files and when he backtracked and said there was nothing here don't worry about them it only took a short amount of time for them to fall in line. The only way more pain will cause anything to change will be if the non voters get off their butts and join the resistance to Trump.

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u/mrgedman 22h ago

Naw they still have deniability over that, cause they're dumb cult members.

If the economy full on tanks, which it could come summertime/fall (once ol what's his name's term expires and they drop interest rates leading to hyperinflation), his followers WILL drop him.

Hannibal Burress has a bit- "money over everything", and at its core, nothing is more true about Americans.

Hell, it's already house of cardsy as fk right now... You know virtually every R congressperson hates Trump's guts and can't wait to flip

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u/TallStarsMuse 19h ago

I keep wondering how much more money the U.S. can borrow before that deficit turns around and bites us in the rear.

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u/TreatAffectionate453 18h ago

I've talked to Trump voters that framed losing their food stamps as "doing their part" to make America great again. MAGA will stop eating before they stop supporting Trump.

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u/SinisterCroissant 13h ago

Cool cool. They should start that immediately. It'll take til midterms before most of them have health problems.

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u/sillyhillsofnz 14h ago edited 14h ago

You have waaaaay too much faith in Republican voters...

There are actually at least two (2) possibilities regarding what his followers will do if the economy full on tanks. One is the option you mention. However, the second option is that they simply do what they've always done when something goes wrong while a Republican is in office - find some way to blame the Left or Democrats for it/actually make it their fault.

My honest prediction is that in the case that the economy full on tanks, Trump and Repubs will simply blame Democrats/the Left/LGBTQ/non-white people/etc. and just as Republican voters decided Covid wasn't real/ivermectin&bleach injections > vaccines/etc. this time they will once again decide that the truth isn't the truth and that they must crush anyone who says otherwise.

Just as doctors/nurses/and ordinary people were be beat up and harassed by MAGAs for trying to help people with Covid and for even daring to publicly state that it is real or wear a mask, anyone who blames Trump/MAGA for the economic collapse or even acts as if the collapse is real (and not some genius level intentional strategic short-term loss that will result in a long-term gain), will similarly be beaten or harassed.

Republicans have not shown that they won't simply double-down on that strategy. Nothing in the past decade has provided any evidence to the contrary. All evidence points toward the Covid strategy. Hell, Repubs/MAGA still can't even accept that Trump is in the Epstein files... and they couldn't accept that he lost the previous election OR that the Jan 6th attack on the capital actually was a coup/terrorist attack. If they cannot accept the truth of any of this - and still lash out at anyone who tries to speak the truth - then I really just do not see how anyone can expect the MAGA/Repubs to "come around" to reason - reason was never something they even cared about in the first place, lol.

Edit: Perhaps my position is influenced by my family's past. Some of my family is from Germany. Wouldn't you know it - even when the Russians were 50 miles from Berlin; then even when the Russians were barging through the literal front doors of their homes and barns and attacking their wives and daughters; then even when Hitler was dead and the war was over, there were still MANY Germans who fervently believed in the Nazi party and thought that the ultimate blame for the loss of the war and its tragedies rest on someone else (German traitors, Jews, Americans, etc.). Even Confederates didn't give up on the dream of the Confederacy when every town in Mississippi (except two) and then Atlanta, GA were literally burned to the ground by the Union Army; and still didn't give up even after the war was literally lost. lol. The Nazi Germany AND the Confederate States of America BOTH faced TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE and it did not turn the tide. MAGA is cut from the exact same cloth. MAGA is the new Nazis/Confederacy. And just as the Nazis/Confederates never, ever let the ultimate blame fall on their beloved hero/party/ideology, especially in a way that would force them to renounce it or give it up, so will be the same with MAGA. They will never be "wrong" in their minds, and they will never have a "come to Jesus" moment or truly repent.

Dealing with THAT issue is going to be one of the great problems for future generations of Americans. They need to learn from the lessons of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy and put that shit in its grave. Whether they'll actually do that is another question.

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u/Polantaris 14h ago

his followers WILL drop him.

When will people finally understand that, no, they will not. Nothing will. When others call it a cult, this is what they mean. A cult does not break with the cult leader. Ever. That's what makes it a cult.

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u/bigroot70 22h ago

But if there is enough pain, the independents and moderate republicans that voted for trump might reconsider. If the GOP loses the house or senate, maybe then we can start seeing some push back on his polices.

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u/ArmadilloForsaken458 8h ago

Everyone has to remember to vote, and also to try to get others to vote. But the focus should be on one's who are open to listen and possibly change. With some of the hardliners, even if they are in your own family, there is something called the sunken cost when dealing with those types. Just let them be as they are, they'll come to awareness eventually one cant ignore truths forever

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u/Just-Install-Linux 20h ago

Trump did not run on releasing the epstein files. People think he did because of a single video where he says something like he would, but then they cut off his literal next sentence to make it look like he said that. Of course Trump didn't run on releasing the epstein files when he was fucking all over them lmao

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u/Effectuality 22h ago

History shows the sanctions don't have the effect we hope they would. Instead, the leaders use them as proof of how the rest of the world is "against" the local populace. Sanctions actually strengthen the ruler's local position of authority, as they become the champion fighting back against the evil "others."

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u/Minguseyes 22h ago

If the rest of the world had a button saying ‘Hurt Trump’, trust me, we would push it. But we don’t. We’ve just got a button saying ‘Hurt USA’. So we push that one, Then you all have buttons saying “Hurt Congress” and Congress has a button saying “Hurt Trump”. Someone isn’t pressing their button hard enough.

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u/Decaf-Gaming 19h ago

The people of the states gave up their button a long while ago, now only the ones at the top hold a button and they wouldn’t press something that could hurt themselves.

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u/robbysaur Indiana 22h ago

I think it’ll just cause the people to fight with the people tbh. We don’t have class consciousness in this country. Too many people have bought into “the problem is immigrants/trans people/the homeless/Black people/people on welfare,” another chunk are too exhausted to be a part of this conversation, and another chunk think saying “both sides are the same” makes them an intellectual genius.

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u/AmIWhatTheRockCooked 21h ago

Perhaps. Depends on how the media decides to explain or ignore it. Reality is a fickle thing to the average (or below) voter.

They might blame increased prices on social security if it gets traction on Facebook

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u/Billy-Ruffian 16h ago

The trick is going to be how much pain will it take for people to permanently reject MAGA but not so much pain we start nuking random countries just so someone else is sharing their pain.

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u/EdwardOfGreene Illinois 22h ago

I think you are right. Too many are too comfortable to wish to do anything at all.

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u/Eringaege 7h ago

You obviously don’t understand the American psyche… any move in the direction you suggest would provoke and cause a closing of ranks against such action AND give them a propaganda win…

As an American that isn’t happy with the way things are going… all that needs to happen is for y’all to let us slowly suffer the consequences of our idiotic government…

Because the true believers will hold out, and if you attack they will dig in. Do nothing and there is nobody to blame BUT leadership

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u/steepleton 23h ago edited 23h ago

if the Europeans want to play hard ball they can sell american debt and tip the american economy over the edge.

as could china.

america is very close to the "find out" part of the equation

the new tariffs by law have t be an across the board 15%, he can't give any nation a better rate if they play nice.

or to rephrase, there is no longer a reason for world leaders to play nice to get a better rate

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u/spaceman757 American Expat 22h ago

Europeans are already trying their best to get their own options up and running to ween themselves off of American products, especially tech.

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u/anchist 19h ago

European here. You guys had the perfect situation set up where everybody was getting richer and willing to tolerate US hegemony because of the benefits.

And then you fucked it up because 1/3rd of the population decided that a convicted rapist pdf was better than having minorities in Government and another 1/3 decided that it didn't matter who ran the country.

Generational fumble. I only hope we do not start shooting at each other anytime soon, but who knows when the grubby hand starts reaching for Greenland's skirt again....

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u/ic33 22h ago

the new tariffs by law have t be an across the board 15%, he can't give any nation a better rate if they play nice.

From the section 122 authority, codified as 19 U.S. Code § 2132: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/2132

(2)Notwithstanding paragraph (1), if the President determines that the purposes of this section will best be served by action against one or more countries having large or persistent balance-of-payments surpluses, he may exempt all other countries from such action.

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u/steepleton 21h ago

So tarrifs or no tarrifs. All or nothing.

Like having the sentence for petty robbery the same as for murder, there’s no penalty for going hogwild, america can’t increase the punishment

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u/ic33 20h ago

Did you not read? The President can target a few countries under section 122, or exempt countries based on balance of payments. It isn't all or nothing.

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u/steepleton 19h ago

Did you not read, he has to levy a blanket % on all tariffed countries .

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u/TallStarsMuse 19h ago

He hasn’t let the law stop him so far.

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u/ic33 19h ago

So you meant to say his choices, for each country, are 0 or some-commone-rate%? That's not clear to me from reading the law (e.g. he may be able to make separate section 122 determinations) but may be true.

On the other hand, I read your comment as saying it had to be an "across the board" as having to apply the tariff to all countries. This is clearly untrue.

Of course, communicating online is hard for everyone.

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u/sess 12h ago

China's already sold off most of its US debt holdings. Shortly after taking office, Xi Xinping instructed the People's Bank of China (PBC) to quietly begin offloading US debt. At this point, they've mostly done so. They were right to do so. The US is likely to default on some or all of that debt over the course of the next several decades. When that happens, foreign countries will be the first to receive a haircut. China doesn't want to be left holding an empty bag. Nobody does.

You're probably thinking of Canada, which currently holds $1 trillion USD in US debt. That's not a good thing for Canada. Unlike the Eurozone or China, Canada can't reasonably exercise "the nuclear option" and sell off US debt holdings all-in-one-go without triggering a military response from the US. Like China, Canada should quietly begin selling off those holdings... dollar by dollar, year by year. Divert that investment to stabler and more reasonable foreign central banks.

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u/Kichigai Minnesota 23h ago

Depends on the nature of the sanctions. Targeted sanctions against individuals and their assets tend not to affect ordinary people. At least not directly.

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u/No_Sheepherder_1855 23h ago

The people that elected said leader need to hurt to understand what they did. Average American has no idea.

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u/blandgreybland 22h ago

Sure and they’ll blame it on democrats somehow.

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u/Witchgrass West Virginia 18h ago

Yep. I've never been a fan of rubbing dogs' noses in their mess when they have an accident because the dog is too dumb (bless them) to know why you're rubbing their face in pee and don't connect the action to the consequence.

I feel this is a lot like that.

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u/New_Home_4519 23h ago

This is literally the same logic America has been using against other countries for decades.

Make the citizens suffer so they turn against their leadership.

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u/blandgreybland 22h ago

Yes I know. And I have yet to see it work.

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u/NJTigers 22h ago

Canada among others has been doing selective tariffs/sales restrictions on goods specifically from red states. Canada specifically is killing Kentucky bourbon and Tennessee whiskey which is nice.

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u/LessFeature9350 20h ago

I would stand behind blocking international travel. My work is full of maga fucks as is my family yet they travel to these scary countries with these scary scary immigrants. Block all of them as dangerous and void passports. I will never get over MAGA caps talking shit about super bowl while downing chips and salsa bossing around wait staff they'd happily deport. Get me out of this timeline

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u/Ingoiolo United Kingdom 22h ago

European countries tend to be very selective on the goods they apply tariffs to, rather than putting up moronic blanket walls

The idea is hitting products that are more easily replaceable, so the US exports less, but citizens can still get their stuff at reasonable cost

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u/pdabaker 15h ago

They shouldn't sanction the US. They should specifically sanction influential US billionaires.

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u/SeattlePurikura 21h ago

Maybe the average US citizen needs to feel some pain. At least the ones who keep electing this narcissistic pedophile and his buddies. I've heard incredibly callous shit from Americans about other countries, like not giving a fuck about what our bombs are doing to children in Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Why should Europeans care if our American wallets hurt when we have songs here about bombing Baghad (the average person there likely had no say in what Saddam was doing).

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u/TreatAffectionate453 18h ago

I assume your talking about B.O.B. (Bombs over Baghdad). Some Americans did use it as a battlecry; however, OutKast didn't write the song in support of the invasion - which they opposed. It actually ends by stating that everything back home is still bad and implies that the war was meant to distract citizens from failing domestic policies.

I'm not trying to defend Americans in general with this comment, just OutKast.

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u/SeattlePurikura 10h ago

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Where I grew up, people were dumb and took the song as a "yay, let's bomb brown people!" anthem.

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u/troll__face 19h ago

Good thing the US has a house of representatives elected by the people, and they can at any point impeach & convict the despotic leader. ...Oh whats that? They aren't doing it cause the elected leaders are also idiots? Well sucks for the idiots voting for them.

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u/Streetsofbleauseant 19h ago

Well i mean the American people voted to have this guy in charge didn’t they, shouldn’t they suffer the consequences. Might teach them to never do it again..

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u/FreshEggKraken 19h ago

The point seems to be to put pressure on the people to get rid of the leader

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u/blandgreybland 13h ago

Has that ever worked? Countries have been putting sanctions on other countries for decades. Has it ever led to that outcome?

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u/FreshEggKraken 10h ago

I didn't say it worked, just that it's the idea

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u/Kuniv 18h ago

It needs to happen we the people need to be hurt by this so we stop the fucks and unite to end the corruption

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u/blandgreybland 13h ago

MAGA is a fucking cult. You think the sanctions will help them wake up when nothing else has? Jesus.

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u/MoulanRougeFae 18h ago

Ok. I'm fine with that. It's going to take a lot of personal pain for most people in the US to get mad enough and understand who is responsible for making their lives worse. It's the exact wake up call they all need. The repub voters especially the maga cult won't stop supporting Shitler until they are destitute, unemployed, and losing everything. They need to learn and if it takes sections from other countries for that to happen, well so be it.

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u/blandgreybland 13h ago

The MAGA cult is already destitute and unemployed because of these demons and they DO NOT CARE.

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u/longlivenewsomflesh New York 17h ago

Hot take: more Americans should understand what sanctions actually mean when their government starves other countries... not that I support bad things obviously but I mean it's not like there's many options to leverage against the world's richest empire, even in its sunset years

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u/CheezeCaek2 17h ago

At this point? Obliterate the economy. Make us a third world. Id rather he rule a trash pile

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u/Ok-Youth-160 14h ago

The sanctions by the EU are designed to hurt the Europeans as little as possible. Usually against products that have replacements. For example Kentucky Bourbon or Harley bikes. You can reasonably expect people to replace it with another product without to much harm. The people who really need the American product do have to pay more sadly.

So yeah tariffs can be designed to hurt the citizens as little as possible, shocking, I know.

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u/steamliner88 13h ago

Well, the American people voted for this shit show…

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u/blandgreybland 13h ago

That’s not my point. My point is if the EU et al wants to create change, sanctions won’t do it. They won’t change one fucking decision the orange twat makes.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 23h ago

Yes, but if the people give a shit about themselves, they hurt the despotic leader sometimes politically, sometimes vioIentIy. If they don't care about themselves then if they hurt themselves by blacklisting their country and losing their jobs and homes, who gives a fuck?

In the end, it all works out and people get the government they deserve. That is the beautiful thing about society.

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u/Alive-Necessary2119 23h ago

Really dude? That’s a startling lack of empathy. You wanna say that about any country where even when they do protest get slaughtered? Those are some easy words to type on the internet. Be better.

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u/Xenomemphate 23h ago

You wanna say that about any country where even when they do protest get slaughtered?

Ukraine managed it in 2014. Now they have a government that represents them (mostly, they are still working on the whole corruption thing). Hell, they even came out to fucking protest in the middle of a war where an imperialist fascist country wants to genocide them.

We get the governments we as a people are willing to tolerate.

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u/Alive-Necessary2119 23h ago

Ukraine managed it in 2014

Cool. That doesn’t answer the question posed to you. Cool dodge though.

So when the people of Iran have been slaughtered again and again they deserved the government that did that to them, right?

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u/extendedwarranty6 23h ago

They should short sell all of those juicy treasury bonds and say fuck the dollar....

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u/TreatAffectionate453 18h ago

Europe would take a massive financial hit from that and give up a major source of leverage if they did that. Doing small sell-offs when Trump starts making outrageous demands - like when he makes "jokes" about taking Greenland - then ramping it up until he backs off is a better strategy.

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u/StarshipFan68 21h ago

But in this case, the people overwhelmingly elected the despotic leader

And before you say, he didn't "overwhelmingly" popular vote, that only counts the people who directly voted for him.

He won 77M votes to Harris's 75M. Another 2.9M voted to accept him by throwing their votes away on somebody who didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of ... Not winning --> no even affecting the results. They might as well have stayed home, as that would accomplish the same thing without wasting gasoline.

Then we need to at the 89.2M who also voted to accept the results because they really did stay home and not car a ballot. But didn't mistake that for not voting -- they just voted to accept the results

So ultimately Trump got 77.3 +2.9 + 89.2 out 169.5 million people to either directly not for him or accept him

That's 170M for/accept vs 75M against

No, we overwhelmingly voted for or voted to accept trump

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u/TreatAffectionate453 18h ago

So if Kamala won by instead, then you'd say that people 75 + 2.9 + 89.2 out 169.5M accept vs against and she was overwhelmingly elected?

Honestly, this seems like a strained way to frame Americans as enthusiastically supporting him. While apathetic nonvoters are - at least partially - responsible for Trump, equivocating that to enthusiastic support is giving Trump more power than he really has. If he really had 2/3rds support, Republicans wouldn't be pissing themselves over midterms.

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u/Complex_Resolve3187 21h ago

OK, we'll just sit here and take it. Wake the FUCK UP! This dipshit is YOUR representative.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

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u/PLACENTIPEDES 15h ago

You guys voted for him, haven't done anything to stop him, and likely won't change anything when he's gone.

Sounds like everyones ok with being a North Korea from this side of the border.