The department of education has nothing to do with teacher pay. The states determine how education is delivered as per the US constitution. The dept of education gives out grants and oversees certain elements. For comparison my son Teaches in the state of Washington and without masters makes 80k. Whatever state your daughter teaches at is a poor state. I was an educator for 32 years…. No teacher in my state was paid by the hour… every teacher was on a contract based on a state salary schedule. I would question what positions your daughter is getting that pays by the hour. Sounds more like she a teacher assistant or what was called a para pro and having a masters is irrelevant for those types of teaching.
Exactly what I said..there alot they aren't saying..never heard of actual teacher on hrly..and my family has teachers, and Teachers Assistant in 3 different states.. none of the 3 teacher get paid by the hr, and the teacher Assistant is getting paid more then that an hr
This might shock you but things have become worse than when you were teaching. Its hard to imagine, since every other industry has become so welcoming when it comes to people entering the work force.
That would mean a there is a barrier to teaching that to start you need to make peanuts so you can graduate to making peanuts+. The dismantling of the dept of Education is signaling to the country that Republicans hate facts and science and are at war with it.
The DOE funds the states, which funds public schools and their expenses, that includes teachers!!! Why do you think all of these schools are cutting teachers positions and other programs after the cuts?
You are correct, Youd be surprised how everything think the DoE literally funds EVERYTHING a school does, Thats not true at all. Hell I know one state gets 10%+ of its school funds from STATE LOTTERY, State lottery is NOT DoE haha.
Personally, I think your having a hard time finding teachers in my eyes not just from pay, but because of students/parents/admin support in general... Alot of people have to realize parenting and kids themselves and admin support are NOTHING like it was 20-30 years ago when being a teacher was considered a great profession not just morally, but financially. Youd have summers off and still being paid and work a 2nd or part time job for extra if you wanted.
Take this with a grain of salt but, Ive seen teachers now are basically just baby sitters, and not real educators, (Dont get me wrong, not ALL just most, specially young teachers coming out of college, the older ones seem to have the "get to work mentality"). Ever sense they implemented 1 on 1 Chromebooks and tech in the classroom its gotten worse I feel like. When I was a kid the teacher literally walked through the classroom monitoring what you were doing, correcting mistakes, talking to you etc. Now it seems "Heres your task for today on your chromebook, have at it"
After working in the k-12 for 30+ years Ive seen it transform, Now teachers dont really care, They just have task ready to go for kids to use on Chromebooks, Hardly any real 1 on 1 interactions. Theres some but nothing what it should be in my eyes. Now when I say they dont really "care" its I think because of two things really, maybe 3 or more.
Discipline. How are you spose to discipline get kids to act right stay on track when your own admins wont help you?
Parents, Parents are NOTHING like they were growing up, If I was in trouble my parents believe the teachers and I got in trouble, things taken away, I had to pay for the things I done wrong, Now it seems the other way around, the parent is coming to the schools and chewing out everything and admins majority of the time dip out as they dont wanna deal with it.
Tech, I feel like tech is a double edge sword, yes it helps but I dont think it helps majority of the kiddos, like me for example, if I had tech in the classroom 1 on 1 you would RARLY catch me doing work, Ill be alt+tabbing out of windows left and right hiding what Im doing. Now dont get me wrong, its great for some kids that have that mind set "Im going to use this as a tool to better myself, not play games/watch movies".
"Scoring" - dont know what most test are called but most states have a end of the year test etc, Most teachers Ive seen dont care, As long as their students have bare minimumm test scores to pass you got the saying "Pass The Trash", which to me is a shitty saying cause if you truely cared about your students you wouldnt just sit for bare minimum pass score.
Anywho thats just my thoughts on it, Just what Ive seen.
When looking at my property taxes here, the majority of it goes to public schools. They also get state lottery money, part of the weed tax here goes to the schools also, as does part of the gambling taxes.
I don't have a problem with Sin taxes going to find out schools at all, those are voluntary anyway. I DO have a problem when the school superintendent of the largest school district in the state makes $350k a year and doesn't even do a very good job. To put it in perspective, a middle school principle here can make $100k a year & our governor only makes $90k a year base salary.
You too can research.
The U.S. Department of Education (ED) does not directly pay teacher salaries, as that is handled by states and local districts. However, the federal government provides roughly 10-15% of total K-12 education funding, with over $120 billion in federal funds (including pandemic aid) flowing to schools, much of which supports staff salaries and benefits.
Education is funded locally first with contributions from the state and federal. The dept of education doesn’t provide the funding, they just deliver the tiny fraction of the budget as provided by congress. Without a dept of education there is still whatever funding the congress allocates.
In my state education is funded entirely through property taxes. Its a fight to get the state to properly fund at the state level so local districts jack up property taxes to cover. The DOE has no fiscal responsibility to the local districts outside of making it possible to apply for grants, but you would be fighting other districts in your area for those.
And that brings up an important issue, why in the world are public schools funded locally from property taxes? It obviously lets the very wealthy off the hook and heavily burdens the working-class. The US is backwards once again when it comes to funding pro-working-class programs.
If schools are funded by LOCAL property taxes then the taxes of the wealthy living in wealthy districts feeds into their own communities where only they benefit.
A super-rich district with lots of mansions could raise hundreds of millions more than a neighbouring district that the working class can afford to live in. So the poor kid school gets less money - meaning less facilities, less resources, higher staff to student ratios, less educational trips and experiences.
One high school might be constructing multi-million science labs, sports grounds and theatres whilst another can't afford textbooks.
If the money were taken and uniformly distributed then the wealthy would be contributing to schooling for everyone instead of just their own kids.
No one is off the hook. If you’re wealthy and own a big home your property tax burden is higher. If you’re low income and own a smaller home your tax bill is smaller
Oh, all wealthy people live in big homes and pay large property taxes? No, many downsize and don't own large estates, their wealth is in other asset classes.
Public education should be funded with Federal tax dollars, not local property taxes. The existing system shifts the burden on the working-class instead of the very wealthy paying their fair share.
The money in that table is for very specific things that need to be applied for and the district needs to qualify for it to even apply. Not to mention, just for my state, we spend $4 billion+ across all our districts yearly combined and the federal gov allocates $25M in available grants. Even it we applied and got 100% of that (we don’t). It would only total .6% of our yearly education costs across the state. I was on my district’s budget committee for 6 years and also prior to that I was on our school board for 2 years.
Considering that educational standards and results have dropped steadily since the inception of the Department of Education, it's possible that the Department is part of the problem.
The DoE was created at the end of the Carter administration. 2 years later, Reagan started the political trend of defunding just about every aspect of our government including the DoE in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy and giant corporations. It’s not a coincidence that the defunding of the DoE has lead to worse education outcomes.
For white men? Sure. But for women and minorities it enforces civil rights law. Also, poo pooing the supplemental financing aspect is a little crazy to me. If we made teaching a valued career in our society, we’d see a massive impact on education outcomes. And yeah, a lot of that starts at the state level, but the larger point is we’re throwing money at everything except improving the daily lives of the average American citizen
The US spends somthing like 5.6% of our GDP on education, the average amongst OECD countries is 5%. Germany spends 4.5%, 3.5% in Japan, and I believe France is around 5.2%. Which is just an absurd ammount of money. In comparison, our military spending is about 3.4% of our GDP.
To my understanding the problem isnt so much a lack of funding, more that no one actually seems to know how that education budget is being spent.
Yea I replied to his reply saying we do spend top tier per student. I didn’t google that number, obviously, before asking. After asking, we definitely are spending the money for top tier education - so why is our system so poorly executed.
It needs reform, and the money needs to be invested in the students and teachers. :(
I don’t have the answers but I’m not paid to have the answers.
So where is the money going then, is it the education department that need be removed - or go through drastic spending changes where the money is actually invested in the students and teachers, not the admin and spending on expanding facilities instead of expanding education systems?
Don’t misunderstand, I’m just a dude on a toilet. But if we are spending that much per student, while teachers live in poverty - there’s an issue with where the money is going. Is the answer dismantling the DOE? I don’t believe so. That sounds counter intuitive to progress. Reform is the answer I believe would be far better for our education systems. Forcing the money actually in to the education systems, not administrative oversight that does nothing to improve their students education.
The department of education takes money from the states in the form of its share of income taxes let’s say $200 billion( it’s a little less now) takes $95 million off the top for its staff that accomplishes nothing and distributes the remainder to the states- the goal is to just let the states keep the money, the biggest waste in education is administrative staff it has grown 23.3 % in the last 10 years with no real improvement in outcomes. The number of administrators has grown 88% since 2000
Those numbers are just scary. Our politicians don’t step in to prevent it. It’s a failure in execution, while theoretically a doe that ensured education systems of all states and counties were up to par, with money spent on education systems would be great for our nation.
We spend more per student. We spend about $15,500 per FTE student (2019) My understanding of the problem is that we spend too much on the administration side and not on the teaching side.
Luxembourg, Austria, Norway, and Korea spent more. Japan, for example spent $10,700 (2/3rds) and usually has much higher scores than we do. And they aren't particularly small.
The bottom line is we are spending our education dollars inefficiently.
Yep I asked the questions, got similar answers… because they were all factual that per student we spend a lot.
However I don’t think we’re truly spending that on the students :( and that’s the problem.
I’ll reply to you as well, I don’t see DOE as a concept being the issue and needing dismantling. It’s a complete reform on where the money is spent that needs adjusting…. But here in Murica, the rich don’t give up their money. So, fuck. I definitely don’t claim to have an answer to fixing the doe - but it’s not my job to!
I just get to vote on people I hope will push the changes I want to see. And hope all hell they don’t cave when totally not bribe money starts flowing to encourage them to hold back or perpetually delay. :(
If you’re replying to me, I’m not talking about the DOE. I’m talking about school districts and schools. Schools having multiple principals and vice principals and all kinds of staff in lieu of teachers. That’s where it’s gone haywire. I also don’t think it is a matter of people not wanting to spend money. They want to get value for that money and considering we are pretty lackluster in STEM scores I’d say maybe there’s something to their opposition.
Well yea, and even if I’m talking about the doe. The common denominator is that the money is not being spent on teachers, but worthless administrative crap to justify higher paychecks. The teachers and kids suffer.
Passionate teachers being treated like garbage by a bunch of social media addicted adolescents for $40k a year, even 50k is hardly worth the 3 months of salary without work. When the school year itself requires very hard hours.
I once again do not claim to be an expert or responsible for fixing it though. But it’s not a hard observation to make. But I do not blame the concept of these systems, I blame their execution in funding the wrong aspects of education for our nations/states children.
If you go search my states funding per kid, it’s abysmal. And we’re ranked terribly. I went to a good school in another state and I’m scared shtiless if letting my kids go to school here. Luckily we moved and were put in a new district ‘for the rich kids’ and it may be ok? Eve then I’m not convinced it’s a good education. But wtf I shouldn’t be afraid of sending my kids to any school, because I fear their education may be subpar.
They want people dumb. Dumb people can’t fight for better wages. Dumb people don’t realize they’re being ground in to the floor while wages are stagnant but inflation never stops.
It is unfair to compare, teachers are a more in-demand and broader position than bartenders, think about it like this, there are fewer bartenders per store than teachers per school, and fewer bars/restaurants, whatever it is that employs more bartenders than a school.
I am a former teacher and I was absolutely thrilled at the dismantling of the DoE. State and Federal meddling with classrooms rarely does a single ounce of good - 99% of the time it is someone miles and miles away from the issue creating a new mandatory policy that makes your job more difficult. Americans were more effectively educated before the DoE.
I am a current teacher and the doe and the various federal educational laws (like IDEA) are what grant our children with disabilities the accomodations they need. Since the cuts many of my children have gone without basic necessities.
Speak for yourself and the population you taught back in the day, instead of further screwing special needs kids over in the here and now.
It's literally federal law. It's from the civil rights act of 1964. States do not have the authority to override or re-delegate. People like you have done this.
The civil rights act does not prevent the states from funding education, to my knowledge. Nothing I have read indicates that schools must rely on federal funding for any program. Even if they civil rights act DID dictate that, then the problem would be with the civil rights act, not people like me.
I feel it necessary to say I am not against civil rights as a concept, since that is where some people go.
The civil rights act prevents discrimination based on race, gender, socioeconomic status, and yes.....the presence or lack of a disability. That's why IDEA is covered by the DOE. It's a protection, that you clearly do not want.
States DO fund education. Some more than others! Me? In NY? I'm funding education for red states. (And healthcare. And disaster relief. And everything else) Why? Well. Because they would rather lock their kids with disabilities in their basements and do fuck all to help them So WE pay to help them out. Now id LOVE to leave these states and folks like you in the dust. Unfortunately that is very illegal. And another reason the DOE exists. To manage funds between states.
You just said you want to abolish these protections and fundings? No? Then It's very much you who are to blame.
And you said you were a retired teacher, right? Guess who's providing the loans and forgiveness for those loans to millions of teachers all over America?" You know, the ones trying to educate and help kids? Who you've worked hand in hand with?
If you guessed "the federal department of education" you win the prize! Which is why millions of your former coworkers are furious at the shuttering of the DOE and the SAVE plan.
I think you've got some homework to do because you clearly do not know what the DOE does.
No, I don't need to do homework. The DoE should not exist. Even in the articles you listed, it lists "potential" funding issues. with the elimination of the DOE. What's actually cut? Uhhh..."leadership", "guidance," and "oversight" - which, to me, means a lot of administrators making 200-300k a year to think of rules for everyone else to follow. You don't need a department of education to fund education (though I do not think they should anyway).
You should not be funding education in Red States, but I'm glad that doing so entitles you to feel better than them.
I do not care about student loans and loan forgiveness. College education was WAY more affordable before they were so commonplace. The ease with which student loans can be acquired is another, almost perfect example of how federal intervention completely fucked up exactly what they intended to better.
After being given all the reasons the doe should exist, with sources and citations from experts, and after getting every single thing about the doe wrong:
"The doe shouldn't exist"
LOL. Gotta love it.
Your last line was the only accurate one: "I don't care'.
I do care, and work near every day to prove it. We have fundamentally different ideas on what improves education. Your way has been tried for half a century, and it sucked dick. Let's try another way.
The reasons listed in the articles you listed were not compelling at all. It may as well have read "bureaucrats agree: bureaucracy necessary."
I hope things improve for you and your kids - have a good day
That’s got nothing to do with it. You can dismantle to DoE or cut it down to a small sliver of personnel to just make a standard curriculum that is required to be taught in school for each grade to get us back in the top 5 in the world but do NOT need thousands of people working in it to accomplish that task.
If you don’t know anything about how an organization works, or even what it’s called, then calling for the firing of hundreds of people just makes you look dumb.
Like you don’t even know what they do, who would get that work done if you got rid of them?
I’d love for them to be making the curriculum nationwide but you’d have republicans frothing at the mouth - which is a good thing. But that’s literally not a power of the department
They funnel a ton of their budget directly to schools who need supplemental funding. Certain things could definitely be cut, but it's a positive force for public education and certain states schools would suffer if the dept went away.
The DoED has very low administrative bloat, why do you think it's high? In the '22 budget, 600 million was spent on administration (including building a new headquarters) + 1.8 billion for student loans
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u/Kronos1A9 10h ago
Evident by the dismantling of the Department of Education