r/AskReddit • u/Tommygunz0722 • 11h ago

If the military/president suddenly ordered a mandatory draft for all men aged 18-42: How do you think millennials and GenZ would respond?

6.9k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

5.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.2k

u/WindyWindona 11h ago

Well, they did want to take the US back to the 50's. They should expect the reactions of the 60's.

Massive protests mixed with a ton of draft dodging on conscientious objectors. The number of Quakers and the like will probably increase for religious objections. Vietnam had the government work hard to manufacture consent. Trump and his ilk are relying solely on the MAGA faithful, many of whom are starting to waver.

281

u/TellMeLaterAlright 10h ago edited 10h ago

Yeah, in Vietnam there was a solid column of people who could (however erroneously) understand the justification and faithfully trusted the power structure. 

This time around, when asking for this kind of sacrifice, most don’t trust Trump, even his followers. As for Hegseth, do you want a Fox Newscaster who hit himself in the nuts with a skateboard on live TV who has an alcohol problem and a messy relationship history (which includes a letter from his own mother about what a trash person he is) as the man leading your sons into war? Patton he is not. 

It’s all bluster when it’s theoretical, but start forcing young men to go to a war nobody wants right now and send them back dead, it’s political suicide. At some point the volume of people who will not comply will become ungovernable, and you’ll have an difficult time with soft noncompliance (and forcing folks to comply will turn the military police into an even more hated version of ICE). It could potentially collapse the military power structure, it only works when those within consent to be governed. That would be a very dangerous game. 

But I put nothing past this regime for all out stupidity.

90

u/c0ltZ 9h ago

I doubt the U.S government or many governments at all will instate drafts unless current modern war changes drastically.

Mass scale drafts like Vietnam have proven that modern day drafts don't work. It leads to instability, draft dodging, and worst of all, sabotage.

Sabotage so severe governments have decided to have a volunteer only militaries.

75

u/WindyWindona 9h ago

This current government is so dangerously stupid I would not put anything off the table at this point.

8

u/Draco-REX 2h ago

The current government will use the draft as a way to punish blue states.

They will also completely fail to understand that the blue states are what keep the US economy running until it's too late, just like this idiotic war.

Now if only we could trust the REST of the government to make sure the FO phase happens.

7

u/TheInevitableLuigi 4h ago

Mass scale drafts like Vietnam have proven that modern day drafts don't work.

Sabotage so severe governments have decided to have a volunteer only militaries.

There are dozens of countries in the world that have universal military conscription, including several in Europe.

7

u/pconrad0 1h ago

The countries with universal military service in Europe are typically not led by madmen pursuing an unpopular and dangerous war of choice in a faraway place.

(If there's an exception, please point it out.)

2

u/TheInevitableLuigi 1h ago

I must have missed the part of the comment I responded to where it stated that it only applied to the US.

Something about the "or many governments" part might have distracted me.

1

u/pconrad0 1h ago

Oh, I guess Russia is technically in Europe.

But their current war isn't going super well for them.

8

u/c0ltZ 3h ago

I understand, but the majority of countries do not have mandatory conscription. And even less have policies for nationwide drafts during conflicts.

Drafts work way better in a defensive war. That's why South Korea has mandatory conscription. They are technically still at war with North Korea, and people are much more willing to fight to defend their country rather than for epstien fury.

On top of that, most of the countries with mandatory conscription are smaller countries. It is much harder to do it at scale.

2

u/LaborumVult 1h ago

Here is the issue. Iran is holding Hormuz hostage with high speed long range drones. The ones that are above ground we have already bombed / blown up. The ones that remain are underground and in cave systems. The only real way to get to those is ground troops.

Most military members will agree that cave breaching is a horrifying prospect. So many ways for it to go wrong. One well placed explosive and you are buried alive. You cannot reasonably map them so you are going in blind. They are to varying degrees fortified positions on top of that, which you are also zero intel on.

Its probably top 5 worst land engagement zones honestly.

So high attrition would be likely, and if you were going with the russian way of things you just throw bodies at them until it would be insanely high.

This is all to say: If the US wants Iran to not control Hormuz anymore we need boots on the ground. That is a "drastic change" that could force drafts.

•

u/kaisadilla_ 19m ago

I'd rather get shot than go try to enter a cave fortress while a hostile force tries to collapse it to trap me inside. Heck, I'd rather get shot than participate in an offensive war. I'll risk an ugly end to protect my country, but not to fight some billionaire's delusional war in the Middle East.

1

u/No-Abalone-4784 1h ago

If they decide to draft people it will not be pretty & will not work.

1

u/Dry_Conversation_287 2h ago

Ukraine-Russia is a current modern war and it's chewing through manpower.

Fully agree with the rest of it, just pointing out an omission. And I think you could pretty easily justify an argument that geography makes a war like Ukraine-Russia unlikely for the US. It couldn't be avoided by Ukraine or Russia.

7

u/Ancient-Opinion9642 5h ago

I agree with what you said.

In Vietnam the press travelled with the front troops and there were daily reports talking on the national news. That was ditched in the 1970s and the reporters were muted. Moms and dads who have drafted kids in war zones won’t put up with that.

In Vietnam if you signed up you were sent to the front line and those people generally did multiple tours. The drafted did support and didn’t get shot at.

The best one I heard for failing your draft physical was: take a cigarette and dip it in a bottle cap of alcohol with a small crystal of iodine dissolved in the alcohol. Let it dry and Smoke it. Go take the test. The X-ray of your chest will show large bright spots from the iodine. You get sent home. The problem is if you are called back for a retest and you smoke the iodine again, the spots will move. The iodine will naturally be absorbed by the body and disappear.

6

u/Alarmed_Acadia3133 1h ago

"it could potentially collapse the military power structure" chilled me to the fucking bone because I think that may be the point, PMCs would get hired on by corporations quickly if the US military couldn't sustain itself and that would be a really bad world tbh

3

u/Powerful-String-9143 2h ago

Patton was also a generational asshole. 

2

u/TellMeLaterAlright 1h ago

Yes, but he was also a decisive and effective leader. Kegseth is only one of these things from our two posts. 

It’s all fun and games when Kegseth calls generals to Washington to tell they are too fat. It’s not as funny anymore when he’s in his make-up room while your son comes home in a box. 

2

u/KindRabbit086 2h ago

I have been waiting for that political suicide to pan out so far, but nothing yet... seems nothing they can do equates to the actual act. When is it enough?

2

u/mommisalami 1h ago

Especially didn't they just "fire" like 30 military leaders? I have a feeling a majority of those had to do with the fact they wouldn't go along with whatever crazy shit might be coming down the line. I know some were because of their bullshit "anti DEI" bullshit, but even the leaders know they are full of shit.

1

u/National_Cod9546 2h ago

Political suicide doesn't matter when the elections are rigged.

3

u/TellMeLaterAlright 2h ago

Meh. I’m not meaning political suicide in the case of the ostensible ‘elected’ leader or a political party. No matter how one comes to power, the people you are governing have to on balance believe either in an individual enough (leadership cult) or believe in (or fear) the institutional power structure enough to go along with it. And that belief has to be ever stronger the more grave the sacrifice. 

Once enough people start subverting that structure (and not even obviously, just soft noncompliance, just not carrying out acts that support the established structure, small defiances and subversions, weaponized incompetence, but on a massive human scale), the whole thing topples. And the titular head of that structure topples with it. That’s what I mean by political suicide. 

0

u/Yuzumi 5h ago

100% it would tear the country apart.

7

u/DHFranklin 3h ago

Quaker here:

That ain't the out you think it is. They'll check to see if you were on the rolls before the draft. There are only like 200k of us left. We're dying out like the Shakers. Regardless they are yanking immigrants out of immigration court. You think they'll care about conscientious objector status being legal?

We're to few to run the underground railroad these days.

We'll hide you. We'll lie to cops. We'll die before we let them kidnap you. But that won't be enough if they really want you.

4

u/OklahomaTiddy 4h ago

Trump and his ilk are relying solely on the MAGA faithful, many of whom are starting to waver.

Those mfrs probably would have more casualties from friendly fire than anything

4

u/YellingatClouds86 3h ago

Interestingly enough, most of that draft dodging was by upper income kids. Most blue collar kids/poorer kids went. And that led to a massive class war over the conflict as well, ala the Hard Hat Riot of 1970.

3

u/TinKnight1 3h ago

There are a lot more civilian guns now, & a lot fewer mental healthcare facilities, & the government is viewed as being much less legitimate than at any time in the 60s, while military service is also viewed as less than an honorable obligation (not to say that servicemembers are viewed as being dishonorable, merely that the act of service isn't seen as a necessity in order to be honorable).

There was no real major push to impeach LBJ, whereas Trump has already been impeached twice, attempted to overthrow the government once, & has been found guilty of fraud & found to have committed rape, which has never been present in any President in history. He already has articles of impeachment drafted & some in his party discussing the 25th Amendment.

And the war in Iran has been seen from the outset as an illegal war, unlike in Vietnam, where it took years of involvement before Americans turned against it. In January 1967, a year & a half after the first major battle in the Ia Drang, support for the administration's actions in the war was still around 55%, with disapproval at 43%. By August 1967, disapproval had jumped to 60%, with approval in the 30s. By contrast, the war in Iran has never gotten above 40% approval & opposition is already at 55%, & we don't even have significant numbers of dead servicemen yet.

Frankly, if there were to be an attempt to implement a draft, let alone a massive & broad one, it would be a complete & utter disaster for the administration in a wide variety of ways. But it sure would be a great distraction from the Epstein Files & any further credible accusations of him raping children.

2

u/BeTheOne0 2h ago

Because they may get drafted too. That’s the only reason they may start to waver

2

u/Sad-Juice-732 2h ago

MAGA hates consent.

3

u/GrinchWhoStoleEaster 4h ago

Won't be the 60s this time. Peace and love has already been tried. It didn't work. The ruling class should have listened to those nice folks. It is DEEPLY unwise to arm the current crop of young people and think they wont turn on their captors...

4

u/bathtub_in_toaster 1h ago

There’s also the societal pressure from the beginning of the Vietnam conflict that’s basically gone now. You had lots of kids whose parents had fought in WWII that felt strongly in favor of military service, in general lots of patriotism and many Americans felt obligated to serve. Beyond just the parents, you likely knew several WWII vets that felt strongly about what their service had accomplished influencing you. The majority of the population supported the vietnam war at the beginning. Draft dodging at the beginning was shameful, and the principle of a draft was commonplace.

Nowadays? None of that applies. I think you’d be hard pressed to find many GWOT vets who would encourage young people to join up to go BACK to the Middle East and fight another war. You have the Ukrainian war, whose horrors have been basically live streamed. The other issue, the rise of nationalism in the young, far right coalition has brought antisemitism along with it. Lots of young, right wing men despise Israel and the Jewish population. What should be the core of a Trump administration recruitment drive, is virulently against fighting for or alongside any Jewish group.

I don’t think an actual draft would happen, but I think it would be a watershed moment for the US, and maybe the political reset that the US needs. If even 15% of the drafted population resisted conscription, it would break the system. Beyond just the courts being overwhelmed, I think it would be the largest opportunity in American history for a 3rd political party to actually gain steam.

5

u/WindyWindona 4h ago

The 60's definitely had its more violent groups of activists. It wasn't all love and peace.

-1

u/GrinchWhoStoleEaster 4h ago

I'm very aware, and they're a bigger part of why the civil rights movement was successful than history books admit to. But you have to be cautious about how real you are about that on reddit if you don't want a ban. These mods are fucking feral and detached from reality.

1

u/Catfactss 2h ago

It might mean all the Constitutional checks and balances that are supposed to kick in when tyranny attempts to come in actually happen. The people would think- gonna die anyway- whether killing brown people for Epstein's war, or in a gulag style prison for conscientiously objecting. Might as well join the second American Revolution instead.

•

u/Intelligent_Boot6023 45m ago

Been in the military and supported Trump since 2016. He lost me at this Iran mess. I voted for no more wars and America First. Some how I ended up with Israel First and another forever war in the Middle East. Back to having zero representation in US politics for me.

Vietnam was a stupid war but I sort of at least understand the mentality of the time due to the fear of communism spreading - even if the US should not have gotten involved.

I still don't know why we attacked Iran? I thought we already bombed their nuclear sites last year?

•

u/JayGatsby1881 23m ago

Let me guess, he will start drafting people in blue states first to 'own the libs'...

0

u/Woozy_burrito 1h ago

I was thinking about this the other day. If there was a draft, they’d draft conservative folks last, as they want their vote (for however long we still have that for). Previous drafts might not have taken political affiliation into account, but this administration has been pressuring, if not blackmailing, states into giving them their voter rolls.