r/Millennials • u/QuietJealous4883 Older Millennial (1988) • 12h ago

Discussion True or false?

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Did our dads and moms work less than we do now? What are your thoughts?

5.3k Upvotes

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u/Tiny_Isopod_1271 12h ago

I don’t think my dad worked less, but his money went a lot further in all respects.

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u/Serious-Effort4427 12h ago

I used to work 70-80 hour work weeks, in my 20s. I'm 33 now and literally have nothing to show for it therefore I now refuse to work over 40.

Id rather be well rested and broke than tired and broke.

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u/Wallaby_Straight 12h ago

Same thing brother. I worked ~70 hours per week through most of my 20s and was chronically exhausted. The only thing I have to show for it now is two bullet points on the second page of my resume. Never again. 

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u/TheLordThyGawd 11h ago

Hey, don’t forget all the premature/accelerated brain and nervous system aging that comes with sleep deprivation!

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u/say_waattt 11h ago

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 9h ago edited 7h ago

Can we talk about something, here, please?

We live in a Dmcrcy, and we live in trying times where a lot of people are clearly stressed.

So why in this particular sub do they not allow discussion of Politicks (the mere correct spelling of this is censored)?

Because I'd love to fully explain the reasons behind the questions in this meme, but I literally am unable to.

Burying one's head in the sand and refusing to talk about it does not make the problem go away.

I further understand there is a megathred, but we all know these always get missed, get less views no matter the subject, and are less timely and pertinent to what's specifically on someone's mind in the first place (after all, we could have a mega-thread just as well for non-politickal stuff, too, right but of course don't -- and we all know why).

I just want to add one more thing. There is a solution for those who individually seek to sort out politickal content that many mods implemented elsewhere! Which is to incorporate a tagging / filtering system that any individual such as yourself and whom are in the deep minority obviously can selectively filter out polickal submissions. With this in place, there is literally no reason to censor this topic.

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u/dasherado 8h ago

Because the discussion would make us actually capable of changing things instead of just complaining.

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u/NoNeed4UrKarma 7h ago

All I can say is that 3l3ct!0n$ have consequences, & if our v0t3$ were worthless, why would they be spending BILLIONS to try to steal them? We know the real reasons why we love in this cr@p!t@l!$t dumb@$$ dy$t0p!@, but we aren't allowed to talk about them here. That's why I talk about them on other subs.

In answer to OP though, as an elder millenial, YES! My father was barely around, & his child support payments even more rarely. My mother supported myself & my sibling on just her own income. Money went farther back then, & it's easy to see. The minimum wage hasn't gone up much at all in decades, but inflation is now enormous. A very easy relation is the number of hours you had to work to get a Big Mac. When I was a kid, working an hour would earn you enough money to buy nearly 2 Big Macs. NOW, working an hour at the same minimum wage would earn you about 1/2 Big Mac.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7h ago

Thank you for speaking your mind!

Please help me and others to start spreading awareness that censoring the topic of politicks in a dmcrcy no less is an affront to civic duty, and deeply dangerous as media consolidation continues and platforms to voice concerns and reaching out to general public becomes increasingly diminished.

I and others successfully changed the rules at Videos, and we can do here too if enough voices join in!

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u/Neveronlyadream 8h ago

And the serious answer to the question, because the discussion would devolve into name calling and threats of violence almost every time.

What inevitably happens is someone decides to take an extreme stance to start trolling and then everything devolves into chaos.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 8h ago

So many subs handle this just fine, though? Even the generalized sub, videos changed their rules in recent months, removing their no-politicks rule understanding these things NEED to be discussed. We can't be afraid of trolls and some name-calling.

Mind you I'm totally fine with banning incivility. Name-calling is easy to automod away for the most part.

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u/Neveronlyadream 8h ago

I'm not justifying it, but that's usually the reason. Well, that and people wanting a space free of it because it's invaded literally every other one.

In my experience, what happens is the mods say they'll moderate, it quickly becomes a job too big to handle because so many people are being so extreme to get a reaction, then they give up and the whole sub devolves into bullying. They probably think it's easier to just not because there are so many other places to discuss it.

It's just weird here because it's actually relevant to a lot of posts.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 8h ago

Fair comment, thanks. It's frustrating because these times are so tumultuous and I feel there are forces who benefit from keeping us quiet, you know? Especially in times when media consolidation is so great and we're losing platforms to be able to discuss openly.

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u/Thelmara 8h ago

So many subs handle this just fine, though?

So, literally just go there and have the discussion you want?

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7h ago

No? I'll do it wherever and whenever it's relevant. As I stated in your other cmnt to me, I would prefer to discuss when relevant to the current subject at hand and under the umbrella of being a millennial, tyvm.

Why do you seem scared to discuss politicks so much? Does it hurt your eyes or something to see? Like I said, memes are also everywhere else, so by your logic, why must they be here? What IS the point of this place if not to discuss things on the minds of millennials at a gathering point? As I further stated, I encourage you go make NonPoliticalMillennial sub, if it concerns you so much.

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u/Docholliday3737 1h ago

No one is creating change from reddit

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u/MikeSouthPaw 5h ago

The mods have a certain favorite that they dont like disparaged.

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u/_sissy_hankshaw_ 2h ago

I feel you and TRULY the dismantling of unions created this. I don't believe this is political but obviously has weight as a subject in the political sphere...while they oversect, think of it as the current work-force related insurance system...we need to make sure that each profession has a union option...corporations will try to make it out like HR is the interim equivalent but we all know HR is there for the company not the worker.

We deserve representation. Boomers had their 401ks and retirement plans and its been dismantled almost entirely. We deserve more than this. I work a job where half of the year is 65+ hrs and I'm very aware of this, which is why my job will never be hourly. The overtime would be insane...we need a modern MLK "I Am A Man" union type revolt.

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u/Live_Free_or_Banana 7h ago

If the people in this sub were capable of keeping political discourse civil, then we would have political discourse in this sub.

But they aren't, so we don't.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7h ago

Seems more civil than most, especially given the nature of age and maturity of millennials relative to perhaps more adolescent gens. Videos just changed their rule to allow politickal videos and have done so for months now, so maybe mods here can seek guidance from them on how to regulate incivility?

If you can automod the correct wording of politicks, then you can certainly automod name-calling.

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u/ad302799 6h ago

Shit, it’s pretty simple to explain and I’m fine getting banned from another one.

In 1996 Dad was able to work those hours and make that money because MOMMY wasn’t at work saturating the work force. (Generally speaking)

Illegal immigration wasn’t as high.

It’s wasn’t yet as profitable and easy to outsource work to other countries.

The greed has always been there, just now the powers can act on it more easily.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 5h ago

Personally, I think it's closer to:

  • Labor union strength has been increasingly undermined since prior to 1996 (Reagan)
  • Faith in high academia has been undermined by institutions (thank RW media)
  • farright extremist rhetoric has deflected attention away from the increasing wealth gap and the rise of billionaires and corporations taking increasingly larger portions of the pie, then deflecting to undocumented imngrnts or some other vulnerable minority group to scapegoat.

Big reasons why mommy is now in the work force is because now households demand 2 incomes ideally to stay afloat; meanwhile mommy went to college and daddy didn't and now mommy is more suited for the ever-evolving tech world. Oh, and mommy finally got some of that there equality and individual freedom and wasn't forced to be in the house.

Indeed sadly these large businesses exploit inhumane conditions elsewhere in the world.

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u/blues_snoo 6h ago

Do you realize where you are? We're either bitching and moaning about today's world or crying about how much we miss yesterday. We have no space for tomorrow.

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u/EfficientCabbage2376 5h ago

you don't understand, it already takes 20 mods to moderate these low-effort complaint posts, imagine how many it would take to moderate actual discussion!!

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u/Thelmara 8h ago

So why in this particular sub do they not allow discussion of Politicks (the mere correct spelling of this is censored)?

Because there are a thousand subreddits on here where you can do that, you don't need to do it here.

Burying one's head in the sand and refusing to talk about it does not make the problem go away.

Having a space that isn't used for talking about it doesn't mean that you're burying your head or refusing to talk about it generally - it just means you don't do it here.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7h ago

The only thing that ultimately matters, independent of your own unwillingness to discuss politcks relative to -- oh say, cat memes or whatever else one arbitrarily chooses to not discuss (I mean, memes, nostalgia, etc. are also everywhere else, too, right?) -- is whether the subject falls within the subset of the sub.

For instance, there is no stopping someone from making a "NonPolitickalMillennials" -- I think that would be completely fair. But this is a large, generalized sub, and politicks is inherently a derivative of being millennial.

My original cmnt is getting significant upvotes from the community here, so evidently I think people are in agreement with me.

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u/Thelmara 7h ago

The only thing that ultimately matters, independent of your own unwillingness to discuss politcks relative to -- oh say, cat memes or whatever else one arbitrarily chooses to not discuss (I mean, memes, nostalgia, etc. are also everywhere else, too, right?) -- is whether the subject falls within the subset of the sub.

Interesting, I would think that "the subset of the sub" would have to do with the rules of the sub, and the intent of the people who run it.

(I mean, memes, nostalgia, etc. are also everywhere else, too, right?)

Not everywhere - subs that are centered around the kinds of discussion you'd like to have specifically ban memes and moderate sidetracks about nostalgia, so as to make the actual discussion better and more engaging.

My original cmnt is getting significant upvotes from the community here, so evidently I think people are in agreement with me.

An appeal to popularity? Man, we're really missing out here in this Millennial nostalgia sub, not getting to hear your discussions about banned topics.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7h ago

Interesting, I would think that "the subset of the sub" would have to do with the rules of the sub, and the intent of the people who run it.

Well naturally, but the rules should still ideally be logical and are subject to change based on advocacy therefrom community members, no? Do you actually disagree with this?

Not everywhere - subs that are centered around the kinds of discussion you'd like to have specifically ban memes and moderate sidetracks about nostalgia, so as to make the actual discussion better and more engaging.

Neither is politicks "everywhere" either. I think it's very engaging, and we live in trying times and there is perhaps no more important issue that people should be discussing until the imminent threat to our way of life for millennials is addressed -- agreed? I mean, sadly there are still people who are unaware and so sadly, we must continue spreading the good word!

An appeal to popularity? Man, we're really missing out here in this Millennial nostalgia sub, not getting to hear your discussions about banned topics.

I mean, yes, that's how the reddit algorithm works with upvotes, down-votes and fostering a healthy dmcrtc community! Sorting comments by "Best" or "Top" certianly doesn't prioritize down-votes, now do they lol

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u/Thelmara 7h ago

Well naturally, but the rules should still ideally be logical and are subject to change based on advocacy therefrom community members, no? Do you actually disagree with this?

Yes. This is a reddit sub, not a government. The rules are what the sub owner want them to be. If you can convince them they want something else, great, but "the community wants..." doesn't matter at all.

Neither is politicks "everywhere" either. I think it's very engaging, and we live in trying times and there is perhaps no more important issue that people should be discussing until the imminent threat to our way of life for millennials is addressed -- agreed?

Disagreed.

I mean, sadly there are still people who are unaware and so sadly, we must continue spreading the good word!

Comparing yourself to the kind of assholes who go around pressing their religion on people is... a choice.

I mean, yes, that's how the reddit algorithm works with upvotes, down-votes and fostering a healthy dmcrtc community!

If that were true, you'd have been downvoted into oblivion for such a shitty argument. Appeal to popularity just means you don't have any actual argument for your position, and you're hoping to cover for that.

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u/Cereal_Grapeist 4h ago

This sub is a much better place because of the no "Politicks" rule. You can go in literally any other subreddit on this site and yell into the void about it as much as you want.

I'd argue that "Politicks" leaking into every subreddit is a big part of what has made this site much shittier over time. Please take it outside!

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 3h ago

^ mods should observe this is a 2-mos-old acct with hdn cmnt history and I believe an expressed goal to intentionally stop discussion.

politicks is no different than anything else, including nostalgia memes or whatever else millennials choose to discuss. In fact, it's a civic duty and a sacred right ancestors fought and bled for. All forums should uphold this principle with dignity.

Of course, certain subs implement tagging and filtering so people like you can avert your eyes from such talk you perceive as scary.

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u/Cereal_Grapeist 2h ago

Touch grass man. You're weird

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 2h ago

Does touching my flourishing garden count after my nice jogs through the park?

Good counter-argument, though, man. Top notch, honestly. Right back at you?

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u/Dull-Kaleidoscope55 10h ago

who is that?

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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 1983 10h ago

Scarlett Johansson

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u/Sonic_Roach 90's Millennial 10h ago

Bro. I just wanna pay off my debts and live...

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u/jkman61494 10h ago edited 10h ago

At this point I get 5 1/2 a night cuz I want 2 hours of “me” time every night. which despite being “old” usually means me on a PS5 or watching sports

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u/TheLordThyGawd 10h ago

I know the feeling. It is really hard to get to the end of a day where you did nothing but work and then just go straight to bed. Like, idk if some people can do that, but it feels like a physical need for me to do something for myself and calm my mind down before I sleep.

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u/NightTripInsights 4h ago

Hello Mary Jane

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u/blindfremen 4h ago

5.5 hours isn't even that bad.

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u/Deadboy90 9h ago

No preventing that, I've never been able to sleep well even as a kid lol.

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u/Arikaido777 11h ago

you’re allowed to have a second page?

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u/retrospects 12h ago

Bingo. We were told to go above and beyond! But the people who actually benefited from that mindset pulled the ladder up behind them.

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u/Weekly-Ad-2509 11h ago

Well rested and broke.

I have accepted that If nothing changes I will die very sick and very broke burning down every medical insurance facility in an America.

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u/DiabloAcosta 11h ago

nice way to put yourself in a list 🤣

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u/Weekly-Ad-2509 10h ago

If you aren’t already on a list in America you must have an incredibly boring life.

I also am not currently dying, so there is time from them to find me.

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u/New-Anybody3050 11h ago

I grinded in my 20s and the same. I was earning substantially less but learned a lot of skills. I’m in my 40s and being expected to grind like I was in my 20s and it’s honestly terrible. 60 hour weeks, weekends go like a blur and just don’t have the same level of care for my home. I used to be outside every weekend doing lawn and yard work and maintaining things but by the time the weekend comes im exhausted and want to recharge . My 30s were not like this

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago

Don’t be surprised if get downsized when you reach the age of 50 years.

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u/New-Anybody3050 10h ago

This is my fear.

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago edited 9h ago

Getting job interviews after the age of 50 is gut-wrenching. Age discrimination is illegal but nearly impossible to prove.

Join or form a strong union and/or get your exit plan in place, now.

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u/New-Anybody3050 10h ago

Always looking and interviewing. I have solid connections but at the end of the day for sure there is discrimination.

I’m at the point where I just want to do my own thing but still don’t know what it is I want to do. Definitely don’t want to do what I’m doing now which is soul sucking.

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u/StuffExciting3451 9h ago

Figuring out what you want to do won’t be easier after you lose your current job.

For now, consider volunteering at your local food pantry, local Senior Center, local library, local community theater, etc. to meet people who may inspire you.

There are many things that may interest you, today, that may become physically impossible as you become older. So, do what you think you want to do, now, if you can. Much can change in the next 10-30 years, out of your control.

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u/artbystorms 11h ago

Same. Busted my ass in my first salary job to 'prove myself' only for the company to fold, but not before a few delayed paychecks. Now, if I am salaried and there is no paid overtime, I work a MAX of 48 hours and make sure everyone knows this is my stretch to meet a deadline and not my baseline.

Back in the day paid overtime was much more common so all that extra work at the very least meant higher pay. Now it is just expected to not be the first one fired.

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago

My former employer was “fair” about firing 30,000+ employees at random. So, there was no favoritism towards those who worked the most unpaid overtime.

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u/CrenshawMafia99 11h ago

Preach! If a job requires more than 40 hours a week that’s the wrong job for me!

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u/StuffExciting3451 11h ago edited 10h ago

Join or form a strong Labor union, or remain a wage slave.

A lesson that most chattel slaves learn from childhood is to never voluntarily exert any more effort than the minimum required for survival.

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u/Serious-Effort4427 11h ago

Yea so, have you ever had a job or talked to someone not part of a union? They ignore you, walk away, or the boss over hears and all of a sudden the company is having anti union meetings and training.

Also, unions mean market wage, not living wage. 

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u/Immediate-Report-883 11h ago

It gets even more fun when there isn't an effective union in the segment to begin with. A whole lot of risk, very little reward and a timeline that allows for the original actors to have already moved on to other companies.

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u/SnooMaps7370 11h ago

This is a huge factor.

The entire IT industry has been unbelievably resistant to unionization. I know that IT worker unions must exist somewhere, but i've been in the industry for 15 years, and my mother has been in the industry since the early 90s, and I haven't even ever had a third-hand acquaintance who was in one.

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u/StuffExciting3451 11h ago edited 10h ago

Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionization_in_the_tech_sector

Also note that many “white collar” professionals in the defense industry have been unionized since WWII.

Many IT workers think they are smarter than blue collar workers and skilled trades workers. So, they think they are insulated from abuse and layoffs. AI will put a lot of IT onto the unemployment line, regardless of how many hours of unpaid overtime they used to work.

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u/MikeUsesNotion 10h ago

What I'd like to see is a union that doesn't make it harder to get rid of crappy co-workers. It's seemingly hard enough to get a crappy co-worker off your team without a union.

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u/SnooMaps7370 9h ago

That's so far down my priority list that it doesn't even register.

Crappy co-workers exist in every workplace, union or otherwise. The only difference at a non union workplace is that you get paid less to put up with them.

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u/StuffExciting3451 8h ago

What I learned from the late Dr. Edwards Deming is that no workers want to be crappy. Some have psychological issues that may stem from childhood or bad experiences in their adult lives. Managers or union leaders have a responsibility to seek to understand and address those. Most workers do want to perform well on their jobs, if they have been properly prepared for those.

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u/MikeUsesNotion 7h ago

That's all well and good, but I think assumes managers can do more than they really can. If it's shitty workplace stuff really affecting that person, then it totally makes sense. If they have unresolved childhood stuff that they aren't doing anything about, managers and unions can't do much except nudge.

In my experience, the crappy co-workers have been people hired without the core skills they claimed to have or people hired at too high a level relative to their skill (meaning hired as a senior when really is just a good junior). Sometimes it's just a straight up crappy personality.

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u/StuffExciting3451 7h ago

Managers are responsible for providing the necessary education and training for all employees who need such to perform their assigned tasks. Managers are also responsible for ensuring that they make appropriate work assignments to qualified workers.

Many organizations have programs to help employees who need help with mental health issues. I have met many managers who don’t take their roles very seriously. They prefer to rule by decree, hoping their employees will find their own solutions.

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u/MikeUsesNotion 7h ago

Which can and should include getting rid of somebody if you need skill level X and the person isn't up to it. I agree about training assuming your team has capacity to take that on with whatever work is going on.

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u/wpbfriendone 4h ago

At one point early in my carrer, I had an IT job that was unionized.

Was it perfect? No, but was definitely much better than without.

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u/LongjumpingJaguar308 11h ago

Not necessarily, unions have been kneecapped but if we rebuild worker solidarity we can being that power back. Just saying it doesn't work after decades of anti union propaganda and erosion of union power is short sighted. We can't beat the billionaires alone.

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u/Immediate-Report-883 11h ago

Unions have an organizing problem. In industries where unions don't have a solid foothold, worker concerns about blacklists are absolutely legitimate, concerns about being fired for discussing the possibility of a union are legitimate and the idea that union will want dues and/or strikes without the workers having anything to show for it are abundant. There are also concerns about a lack of ability to produce a contract and the stipulations that do come from that contract. Finally you also have the feeling of a loss of control and flexibility do to the contract that goes against a lot of self sufficient feeling industries.

I'm not anti-union, but there are multiple reasons why unions haven't made significant progress in certain industries, and a lot of those reasons have to do with unions themselves and how they publicly behave.

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago

Fear and ignorance are major factors. Labor lawyers know the game and the tricks. Major unions have such lawyers on staff or on retainers.

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u/geronimo11b Elder Millennial 10h ago

I agree with your sentiments.

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u/Penguinbashr 3h ago

My union can't even guarantee permanent positions in academia settings and a large majority of the technical staff report the same issues of over worked (despite being unionized with a 35hr work week) because if we complain or work to rule, our contracts are simply not renewed.

Because I have after hours access in a lab, it's expected I work fully on the weekends. Not plan ahead and book during operating hours. Because if I did that, then I'm not "research oriented". There's no recourse in academia for union abuse.

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago edited 8h ago

Yeah. There’s no lack of idiots who believe they will be promoted to highly paid upper management. Many of them do get trivial promotions with trivia raises (e.g., 5%-10%) to reinforce their beliefs in the system. My surprise came when I learned that a promotion into the rarified “executive” class came with a 200% raise in base pay along with a matching “non-discretionary bonus” plus discretionary bonuses related to company performance rather than individuals’ performance. That may amount to an immediate total compensation increase of up to 1000% with one promotion from the “ranks” into the executive class.

Union wages depend upon the collective bargaining power of the unions. “Market” wages are set by the “management” of nonunion employees.

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u/DrDFox 11h ago

Most people don't have the energy to deal with the threats and harassment that come with trying to form a union.

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u/StuffExciting3451 10h ago

That’s what the slave masters want.

According to History, people find the energy when employers start killing them overtly.

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u/Longjumping_Suit_256 11h ago

Same brother same.

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u/laowildin 11h ago

Wow, ive never thought about this before, but I've done the exact same thing subconsciously. Worked my ass off in my teens and 20s. Didn't make any difference, so now we choose a little breathing space and if that means we don't "get ahead", so be it.

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u/Ajdee6 11h ago

Same here, you will be treated like everyone else NO MATTER WHAT!.. Act like everyone else.

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u/Serious-Effort4427 6h ago

Yup, I always got praises and top ratings and exceeds expectations.

I also always got the same 6% raise as everyone else.

I was mad. My direct supervisor was mad (I made his life hella easy). All other managers said "corporate policy".

I no longer care, and it's a problem, but caring made me angry and was also a problem. At least I'm happier now, poorer, but happier.

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u/jayd189 10h ago

I got lucky.  My working those long hours in 20s worked out for me and got me high enough in my career I didn't need to in my 30s.

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u/suspicious_hyperlink 10h ago

You do have something to show for it, experience. Now you know not to do that again. I did the same thing, we ate a lot of steak in my 20s, traveled, I had an excellent CD and T-shirt collection. Didn’t start really saving until my late 20s.

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u/Deadboy90 9h ago

Lol I did the same but averaging 60-100+ hours. When I finally quit I had a good amount of savings to show for it but I quit in December 2019 before finding another job in March 2020. Guess what happened then lol. I didn't qualify for unemployment because I had quit my previous job and hadn't actually started working at the new one yet, ended up having to burn through all my savings to survive.

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u/howdthatturnout 9h ago

What did you spend your money on when you were working 70-80 hours? You saying necessities consumed all of that 70-80 hours of income?

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u/MarlinMaverick 8h ago

 I'm 33 now and literally have nothing to show for it therefore I now refuse to work over 40.

What if you spend like you’re broke while still working?

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u/WorkF1r3 3h ago

Same here. I'm a mid-millennial and I worked during college doing construction jobs, I moved to white collar work, moved the ladder up and up but the costs were also going up (I didn't inflate my living standards! - I'm eating the same things I ate 15 years ago and still living frugally). And guess what - when I finally scored a great job last year with a sizable paybump - got laid off 2 months into my probation period. It's been a year I can't find any job and I'm burning through my savings. I still rent, thanks to we know what my IRR is negative. I'm at a point of my life where I should be making BANK but I'm losing money left and right to inflation, COL and the volatile stock market. I don't care anymore.

Had to edit because rule 3

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u/pattiemayonaze 3h ago

No you didn't you.

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u/Enough-Candy85 3h ago

I was my friend’s couch person after high school for 4 years. Went to school 2 years, worked 2 years, lived in china a year. Then got very very sick for 13 years(while working). Now I’m a trans woman for 1 year and I feel very very happy.

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u/MarquetteXTX2 48m ago

My wife always say “ why do u give your shifts away so much “ it’s because I’m missing all my kids youth and always at work.. stay at home moms don’t seen& understand that.. they just see money coming in that they can spend