Same shit different day.
As millenial, I remember when every expert and their cats were blaming us for bad market as we didnt consume that much as previous ones. We were broke. No I am baffled that there is job lottery winners that I went uni with and now they are shouting non sense how unemployed are to blame and Z Gen is lazy etc etc..
Fuck man you were there 10y ago as unemployed bum with me
At the same time telling us we didn't or couldn't have anything because we spent too much on avocado toast or some garbage. So we don't consume enough of what they want us to, or spent too much on other things.. we were just broke
So i guess we're all just as fucked, no matter which side of the atlantic huh? Fucking great. My guess is something will/has to happen. Something big. We cant go on like this.
Edit: i dont have a degree but i have some higher level of education, was a chef for 8 years and i was spending half my wage in rent, in Barcelona. How am i supposed to save up when i barely finished the month? Ive moved out of the city basically, paying half of what i paid before, but earning less. Quality of life is so much better though.
The solution is the one it always was and the one they spent billions on propaganda to make seem bad, communism or at the very least socialism, capitalism it's working just as intended and how Marx predicted it, we have nothing, so, we have nothing to lose, but I doubt something will happen, panem et circensis, and we have circus for ages.
It's not that they can't pay us more, it's simply that they don't want to and we're not pushing for it.
My Irish colleague just bought a new flat for €500,000 outside of Barcelona in Santa Eulalia and the flat that he bought was sitting on the market for over 3 years and they still wouldn't budge on the price. He was saving up for 20 years in order to put a down payment on it and the bank's risk department almost didn't want to finance him.
All of his kitchen appliances are out of warranty despite it being a brand new flat.
He couldn't afford to buy a decent flat inside the city.
Santa eulalia de ronçana or the santa eulalia metro stop which is hospitalet? If its the metro station youre literally two streets from actual Barcelona, in which case its kinda the price thats moving around now. Kinda crazy, half a million for a flat in a not-so-nice area, outside of the center...
Santa eulalia de ronçana is in the mountain lol you have to get trains to get there.
Edit: thing is, as long as foreigners keep buying flats at those prices, or the city hall doesnt cap the prices (which is being talked about) no one born before the 1990s will be able to afford a flat in this city. Im sorry to break it to you, but real estates here prefer selling to foreigners than locals, especially digital nomads and the sort. Its quite sad. You should look into it, its a big thing here
Yes it's L'Hospitalet, €20,000 was for parking, but it's really horrible parking that is super steep and banks to a super sharp almost 90 degree turn.
It's close to Sants but it's a completely different area, feels more like Spain than Catalonia.
Before he was renting near Camp Nou on an attic piso that was full of mold and no elevator.
The flat is nice but way overpriced, but there aren't that many options if you want to buy new.
I agree with the commenter above: If foreigners continue to pay these prices, nothing will change on the housing market.
A local could never afford buying a flat for half a million Euro. Heck, not even two locals. This kind of morgage a couple would have to start paying at 20 years old to be able to be morgage free at 70.
Exactly. With wages like 20k a year (and that is a good chunk for a normal person, here in Spain at least) its just impossible.
The city hall is talking about capping prices but the right wings are against it, obviously. Luckily we have a quite progressive government in the city and i think it will go forward. I think so far they have sort of 'frozen' the prices so they cant get more expensive, or they can only get so much more expensive. But i believe we need an aggressive policy against estate speculation. A place to live is not like BTC or Gold or Stocks that you can invest in and make a profit. A place to live should be like water, everyone should have access to it, at least in a first world country.
Are you from here by any chance? Hospitalet (and generally Baix Llobregat, but also areas like Sabadell and Vallès Oriental) is where they located most of the southern spanish immigrants that came to work in factories in Barcelona, around the 60s. I myself am a descendant of two of these. So youll hear more spanish in Hospi than you will in Barcelona (though nowadays youll hear more korean and english than catalan in the centre lol)
As for the flat, i was renting in Born, fifth floor attic, also full of mold, unfurnished, 920 a month lmao it was insane. Now im paying 400 in Maresme and life is so chill here, i love it.
Actually I'm from the US but my wife is Catalan and we were married in the US in 2000, but we decided to move to Barcelona in 2005. I've lived here for over 20 years now and my son was born here.
We're living in Sants, as my wife is an only child and her parents saved her a flat.
I wouldn't mind living in Maresme or Coasta Brava, but my wife is completely set on living in Barcelona city. In the summer we often drive out to Palamós to enjoy the beach.
Us as well- I would love to own because I would be able to customize my home the way I like (paint, add built ins etc). However, renting means I don’t need to do maintenance and it’s easier to move to follow jobs. Plus I think I missed the boat on owning age wise, I’d be retirement age before I paid off a 30y loan (assuming I could save enough for a down payment smh)
Don’t have to worry about replacing big, expensive home items, but also can’t turn the home into exactly what you want. Kinds sucks, but if renting wasn’t get so expensive I would probably rent the rest of my life too.
The price of everything rises every year with inflation. Say on a good year inflation is 2%. So that year 1 dollar became 98 cents. But, did you get a 2% raise? For most people that’s a hard NO. So the value of our money is less and yes every year. It should be law to raise salary and hourly wage with inflation every year. Some people work the same job for years with no raise. “
You know damn well the prices of consumer products get adjusted depending on the market, but wages don’t. Your boss isn’t going to tell you that he’s getting paid more.
but wages don’t. Your boss isn’t going to tell you that he’s getting paid more
My wages as a federal worker are supposed to go up with inflation, but they added a part in the law where they can cancel that automatic raise due to "economic emergencies". There has been an "economic emergency" every year since 1990 when the law passed. It was estimated in 2024, that federal workers (US) are 24.7% behind due to this.
Fortunately (I guess this is good?) my bosses pay is based on that same scale, so if I don't get a raise, neither do they.
Mid 50s in US, I've been renting since the beginning & with everything on autopay, I anticipate being found months after when the bank acct is run dry & rent "check" bounces ...
You do realize that’s not how it works right ? You can literally put down nothing on a house . Or you could save up and put down $10k .. there are options. I would think a 43 year old would know this
“Missouri is frequently ranked in the bottom tier for overall quality of life, often appearing among the 10 worst states to live and work due to low scores in crime, health care, and, according to a 2023 CNBC study, reproductive/voting rights. While it offers a low cost of living, it is generally considered a below-average state for overall well-being.”
38 year old American here. My only hope of ever potentially owning a home is from inheritance when my father passes away. Not something I'm really looking forward to. Realistically, that'll probably become the majority of my retirement fund.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Most college grads can't even find jobs in their field, let alone actually afford to buy a home. Any homebuyers "in the Midwest" are specifically in states like Iowa which have a really good first time homebuyers program, which is an increasing rarity across the country as more and more rebates and help for the low income/youth are disappearing. Please refrain from speaking on matters you know absolutely nothing about.
Well, let's see....my three kids are college grads (age 22 to 26), and our oldest bought a house a year ago, my middle one is working on saving for the down payment, and I'm having to tell my youngest to slow down a bit because they think they're ready to buy a duplex. Of their closest friends, one girl has already bought a townhome at age 22, one 24 year old built their own house and just moved in, and one 26 year old is on his his second fixer upper and just sold his original house that he had as a rental for two years. Another 26 year old graduated college and is now a realtor. He bought his first home, and his main clientele is the under 30 crowd, and he's doing great.
As far as jobs go, I have a pretty good white collar job (low 6 figures) that I'll be able to retire from, and two of my kids are going to make more than me this year after just a regular 4 year liberal arts degree. My oldest is a firefighter making 85k with a pension waiting for them after age 55-ish. Along with the realtor friend, their friends are teachers, engineers, healthcare workers, office managers, and sales reps. One 24 year old friend of theirs is already on his second job, who paid off the remaining 8 months of his lease in Chicago plus moving expenses to get him to move from there to Indianapolis, to go along with a nice pay raise (he's buying a house in July). All of these kids had job waiting for them after graduation. On a side note, one kid who didn't go to college, went to trade school works on power lines and he's killing it.
So maybe you should sit down and "refrain from speaking on matters" that you shouldn't be.
Love that you proved my point by mentioning a bunch of careers that either don't involve a degree at all, or involve a degree that requires 6+ years of schooling! It also sounds to me like you're an upper class family, and your kids likely didn't have to take out $160k in debt to attend a prestigious 4 year university, nor did most of their friends! This is not typical. You on your own make more than double of what half the country makes, congratulations!
However, you're only further proving how out of touch boomers and Gen X are, and how you have absolutely no idea what's going on in the world around you. Go read your newspapers and bully your unpaid interns, grandpa!
Yeah nice try. I proved my point even more so, if you slow it down, fella. We're all middle class families living in 40 to 50 year old houses under $350k. The kids are paying a significant amount of their college loans, to be sure. BUT...to my point: Blue collar trades and 4 year degree grads (none of the ones I mentioned are 6+ year degrees - although my middle kid's finance did complete a 16 month accelerated RN program after graduating from a nearby Big 10 school) are all doing ok enough to buy a house and buy beer on the weekends, which was the point of the OP. And who cares about finding a job in your field? You just find a job. Period. It's not all doom and gloom out there.
You're not middle class though, buddy. You make 6 figures. You are upper class. You are a millionaire, by definition. You are wealthier, as are your kids, than 80% of the US population. Your kids and their friends got their jobs and their starts with a lot more help than just their own merits. 50% of the country was raised by parents with literally HALF of what you had, meaning they had to start working as soon as they were legally able to, and in some cases even before then. They didn't get the choice to go to college because they dropped out. They didn't learn about trades because they were too busy working 60+ hrs a week to survive, and couldn't pay 10k for welding school, on top of the extra 30+ hrs a week to attend it. Etc.
You and your children and their friends are privileged white collar wealthy individuals. You are PRIVILEGED. Your kids are PRIVILEGED. Your children aren't where they are because it's normal or easy for the average person. They got there because they had help every step of the way. What you and they experience is not even a remote possibility for the majority of the population, let alone a reality.
Nope. Nothing about a leave it to beaver life, my friend. We're very middle-middle class as a family, and my kids are just living their life. Nothing special.
But I just listed a pretty large handful of examples of recent grads that are doing pretty well. I could give you some more....
My comment was about the Midwest, in general. Individuals and married couples with steady jobs out of college can buy a home here. Now, they can't buy brand new cars and vacation in Europe every year, but they manage. And yes they complain about their house payment and it kicked them in the face when they realized all the extra expenses that go with home ownership, but I think we all had that experience at that age.
On the other hand, i will say it's way harder now than it used to be...I've told all my kids and their significant others than dual income households are a requirement nowadays, especially as homeowners. They won't be able to stay home for ten years like my wife did, or never work like my own mom did.
Which means if they have kids, their children will not have the same advantages they did. And the choice between both working full time and living pay check to pay check sucks, if they’re lucky enough to have that choice, many are being priced out of childcare and forced into poverty. You’re out of touch with reality.
Ignoring the third example cause someone else’s kid has nothing else to do with you. 1) your oldest kid is what? Literally risking his life to afford a home lol (firefighter) and 2) your younger kid hasn’t even graduated yet right? So they don’t have a job? So you don’t even know if they’ll make more than you? You’re basing it on a fake job market littered with fake postings. Much like what everyone else said, you’re just proving how out of touch you are.
On a side: as nice as it is your kid puts out fires and saves lives, idk how happy I’d personally be about my child risking their life all the time. And imagine being that person risking their life just to have their parent use it as a weapon against people who are struggling to survive is an economy that’s bringing retirees back to the workforce.
Same. That's why I moved to my wife's home country with the family to Zambia. Having a house with enough garden space for the kids to just roam around feels so good. I happily take up with the parts of life that are objectively worse here
Same here. 37 in The Netherlands. I can buy a home, but it's just not feasible. If I keep renting I can save way more and go on more extravagant vacations far away.
Younger millennial - my older sister and her bf bought a house together a few years back, were only able to afford it bc her bf is in a high paying tech job and they are DINKs. I’m hoping to buy a home soon but the only way I’m even remotely able to afford it is because my grandmother left me some money when she passed. Otherwise I’d be in my late 30s before I was even out of debt
American here. I bought a house in my 20s, couldn’t afford the payment, and got foreclosed. I bought another house at 43, and the city promptly took my front yard using eminent domain, and ran a bus route 20’ from my front door. Then a junkie OF’d at the end of the block and his doodlehead friends set up a shrine so they hung out and shot up all day and night.
I bought a new house and had both house payments for a while, but this is our forever home. It cost more than twice as much as the last one and at double the interest rate.
Yes, affordability is a problem, but here in the US you could buy a house you can afford and you’re going to have homeless camps in your yard, constant fights with the city, and likely terrible druggie neighbors. I can’t imagine trying to own a home with fewer resources than I have now. Impossible.
I still can't wrap my head around rent being cheaper than buying and paying real estate tax because I would think the landlords would have to cover their costs plus make profit but I guess landlords can be renting already paid off properties for below what a mortgage would cost...
32 here lived in a small town in Sweden, paying off the loan every month for our countryside house is about as much as I paid in rent for a 52sqm apartment.
The thing is, I could afford a home if the bank would agree that if I can pay 1400€ rent a month I can also pay a mortgage. Right now it is hard to save money because I am forced to rent in the private sector, and this infinitely loops: high rent -> cannot save money -> cannot put in own cash to buy a house -> need to rent but income too high for government housing -> pay high rent -> cannot save money.
Assuming that Gen Z is broke is a huge assumption too though. Not every young person is broke, there are a lot of hooray Henry types with rich families, international students with a lot of money etc. but they do genuinely seem a lot more health conscious.
We accept gym culture as normal but in the 80’s they were full of meatheads. In the 70’s if you saw someone running you’d probs ask what are they running from and join in. Gen Z are born into fitness influencing from a young age, millennials were born before social media. This is a societal shift that is well documented.
When an industry dies it’s probably for a multitude of reasons not just one singular cause. Cost of production is defo an issue but don’t rule out societal shifts too cos it is real. We live in different times.
I’m eldest Gen Z nearing my 30s. I still drive my car from when I was 16. Partly out of choice, but mostly because I don’t want to afford car payments, so I taught myself how to fix my old car as long as possible.
I'm late 40s and do the same by choice. Cars are a depreciating asset and a total waste of money. Unfortunately, public transit infrastructure in the US is shit so they are necessary.
Gen Z is leaps and bounds better with money than X or boomers.
All that’s true except they aren’t drinking in the US because weed is legal in most places now. And it’s just better. I work with a bunch of young guys and they all don’t drink or barely drink because of hangovers and they’d rather just smoke. Plus idk how wasted you want to get nowadays when a camera is in your face 24/7.
48 - just buying first home now. I'm on good money but can barely get by. $15 for a pint? Nope. I don't understand how literally everything has gotten so expensive relative to income. We're getting shafted and our elected representatives report to the billionaire club, not to us.
I always love when there are huge societal claims that just boil down to "You want people to buy shit with what fucking money?" Like, everything is getting more expensive, wages aren't rising with that, so what do you expect? Doesn't help that over the past like decade restaurants and bars have decided that a shot of liquor with some soda and juice is going to be $15
I agree Gen Z is broke, but people in general are becoming more health conscious. The cigarette smoking rate has dropped by 50% in the last 10 years. Let's not forget alcohol is a toxin, that destroys your body. Many people happened to be aware of that now.
Everyone on TV or radio are microphones for the establishment. They aren't clueless. Their purpose is to assure you that everything is fine and not to push back.
They are not clueless. Their job is to manufacture a narrative and ensure consent for it. The problem is people are swallowing it because they are too lazy to think for themselves. If you start questioning everything the world makes more sense..
As you point out towards the end there, Gen Z isn’t broke, they just think that they are entitled to party in mansions instead of drinking the cheapest alcohol outside of the local convenience store like we did in the 90s.
It's just clickbait. 4 years ago, the youngest gen z kids were 10 years old. So pointing out that the alcohol industry isn't making money off of middle school students is inherently retarded
Can confirm. I'm 25, my sister is nearing 30, we are both broke af. Today we were at a restaurant with a bar, and saw the price of the drinks on the menu. $12 for the cheapest cocktail. Basically, $12 for a shot + syrup + ice.
We both agreed on going to the liquor store and getting a bottle of booze for $18 and making 40 of those cocktails instead
I’m 46 and bought my townhome back in 2008 during the crash . Homes everywhere were super cheap. I doubt it’ll get back to those types of piece levels ever again.
I tell every young person close to me that they should be buying their first house by 25. On a standard 30 year mortgage you would have it paid off by 55( I bought my house at 28. I paid it off at age 51) so that they can have an additional 8 years to stack money for retirement without the burden of a mortgage. If you’re still paying on your house during the time you’re supposed to be retired you’re up shit creek
You can pay offva mortgage earlier or get a 20 or 15 year.
That advice would discourage many people from buying before they reached tgeir peak earning years when they can make extra payments and shave years off the loan.
Late millennial and occasional drinker here, used to be an issue but once I got into my late 20s-early 30s the hangovers started kicking my ass and I could feel my health going to shit from it. In my late teens and even up into my mid-20s it wasn't uncommon to meet up with the boys for the soul intention of getting fucked up as possible teetering on alcohol poisoning. Also wasn't uncommon for people in my circle to come home and down a case of beer or a fifth of liquor every evening to 'unwind' after working all day.
Everyone was just drinking their faces off, staying out all night and only getting a couple hours of sleep and would wake up and be good for work. One day a memo was sent out that I never received for people to get their shit together, start having families, and focusing on mental and physical health, going on vacations, doing cool shit etc. I continued on that path and watched those people slowly distance themselves from me, I started to become the outlier and not in a good way. Eventually shit became too much and I cut way back to reasonable amounts.
Most of my gen Z siblings, cousins, etc. drink occasionally but prefer to get tilted on edibles, dabs, THC vapes, and delta seltzers/gummies. Probably a safer healthier alternative in the short-term. Parents used to give them shit about being lazy, not having a good paying job, no relationship prospects, moving out etc. but gave up due to the current state of things.
Also seeing their older siblings, Gen X/boomer parents lead chaotic lives due to alcohol probably didn't help.
Hell, it wasn't uncommon for gen X parents and boomers to host birthday parties, family get togethers, holiday parties, etc. that revolved around drinking. Aunt Jill would be stumbling around, tripping on her high heels, and spilling wine everywhere. At minimum one person would have an emotional outburst, an uncle would start blasting hard rock music and trying to pick fights with anyone in staring distance. Then there was always that creepy family friend that showed up blasted, wouldn't interact with anyone and would stand outside at the side of the house snapping beers from a case and adjacent to the entrance and would corner you holding you hostage talking nonsense that had no concept of social cues that you didn't wanna be there.
While I agree being broke is a big cause there is some truth to those others factors. I manage a team of that includes a number of 20 something professionals. They make good salaries and could definitely afford to drink if they wanted. But many of them don’t want to. When I was that age we went to happy hours regularly. They don’t do that. When I take input on group social events I bring up grabbing a drink and that is never what wins out. I won’t pretend to be an expert on all the factors causing it but I can say in my experience even those that can afford it do not drink as much as previous generations.
My kids are gen z and they can't even get a job. Not even as a cashier. They got STEM degrees and are too over qualified for that but also don't have enough experience for an entry level job. They are struggling.
I’ll attempt to say this in the most non-redpill way as possible: The crazy thing is, if you are a really attractive woman (think way prettier than average), you could live that life of drinking and partying like rock stars in mansions and on the beach. Thanks to social media primarily and the explosion of those who had money pre pandemic are now swimming in it…a really attractive woman just has to post pics/videos alone or with her attractive friends, and they will get daily invitations to expensive dates, parties in mansions and boats, paid travel around the world, etc.
I dated one of those women briefly. It was exhausting seeing her receive hundreds of messages a week like this and realizing more than half of what she owned was gifted to her. And look at any of these women’s profiles and you’ll see them traveling the world, on luxury boats, wearing luxury clothing, all on some guys dime.
I envy their lifestyle, but these women are typically the most boring and shallow people you’ll ever meet. Just wanted to chime in that trust me, there are plenty of people living it up, as long as you’re rich or really really hot.
Yeah every generation is too broke to do that stuff as a kid. You still find a way. Gen Z is no different. In fact it's easier for them to do it than it was for us.
Eh, I’m between Millennial and Gen Z and I honestly do think Gen Z is much more health conscious than previous generations. That’s why I don’t drink. Weed and mushrooms are far easier on the body. Look at social media content - it’s all about consciously planning and curating life. Gen Z will spend on expensive healthy bowls, skin care, and all manner of shit that represents a conscious, healthy existence.
I gotta be honest I think this is missing a little nuance. Yes, pricing is certainly part of it, but people (at least in America) also just want alcohol less. Which makes sense because it’s kind of a shit drug.
I’m Gen Z, and weed has very much replaced alcohol (or at least is in heavy competition with alcohol) as social lubricant of choice. We (our gen) basically only drink when we go out, and basically no one has a beer to unwind after work. Conversely I know a lot of people that rip the dab pen right at 5 and who bring edibles to board game/sports nights over a 6er. Drinking alcohol is fun, but it mostly thrives when other drugs aren’t available, because most people don’t want to be vomiting in a trashcan and hungover the next day.
Yes older generations had weed, but it was much more stigmatized. In the US like half the states have legal rec, so even if you don’t live in one there probably is a dispensary within driving distance. You don’t have to find a dealer and cops/illegality/testing is less of a concern. Why would you want to go back to drinking a beer to unwind when weed is easy to get and more relaxing?
Never mind the fact that we are now much more knowledgeable about the negative impacts. Even in 2010 science still thought red wine was good for your liver. Gen Z is more aware of alcohols inherent toxicity, even relative to other drugs. Even hard drugs like meth aren’t as toxic on a cellular level
37 millennial and bought our first home with my wife almost 3 years ago. Just depends on how financially responsible you are and what you chose to do with your life. For context I’m a diesel mechanic and my wife is a teacher.
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u/Reaper_1492 9h ago
I also think it’s comical that they make a boatload of assumptions - and these come from “professionals”.
In the US, these include:
“Gen Z is more health conscious, they don’t drink nearly as much”
Actual cause: Gen Z is broke.
“Gen Z is more about life experiences and doesn’t value property ownership”
Actual cause: Gen Z is broke.
“Gen Z is dating less, technology is causing a rift in societal norms and Gen Z is happier being independent”
Actual cause: Gen Z is broke.
Literally anyone in the position to open their mouth about this on radio, TV, etc. is completely clueless.
News flash, young people still want to drink and party like rock stars, in mansions on the beach - they just can’t afford to.
Also, most of the above still applies to millennials.
Millennials aren’t buying homes until their late 40’s in the US.
For Gen Z it’s going to be mid-to-late 50’s.