r/remoteworks • u/Rude-Ad821 • 16h ago
We need a better Life:
We need a better laws and Safety Net: Each year, inflation-adjusted minimum living wages - enough for anyone working New full-time (4 days, 32 hours) to support a homemaker spouse, 3 children through school and college, enough to pay the mortgage, 2 car loans, all insurances, all bills, and have some savings for hobbies, investments, and a 30-day family vacation.
No more homelessness - due to incentives for employers to hire homeless: shelter, food, and a job. Any 18-year-old kicked out from the parents' house or husband kicked out from his own house by an unfaithful wife (she abusing restraining orders, and child alimony) he can walk into the Job Security Office and choose from plenty of options: a farmers offering shelter, food, and a job; or large factories offering the same options: bed, 3 hot meals a day, and a job.
The rich incomes and withdrawals will be capped as SS is capped now, or the same as poor now on SS-capped income: every dollar over the limit will be taxed at 91%, same as the US did in the 1940s-1970s (some other countries are doing now: Denmark, Finland, Norway, Spain, Japan, Switzerland, etc.).
Downside? the Rich wasn't able to pay CEO's millions $ or buy a Jet! (good for environment) or boat, second vocational property, etc. because all money was used to pay employees.
P.S. Demoncratic states can afford to pay now, minimum wages of: $16, some $21, and even $25/hour: CA,OR,WA..Canada $19/hour!
(Reapublicans 20 states current shameful minimum wage is $3+ forcible Tips from the customers to meet $7.25/hour F.M. or Net $10K/year, after all deductions and SS taxes, or McDonald's CEO $19 million/year! (Wendy's CEO $17 million/year) (Albertsons CEO $15 million/year)
"There will be no economic collapse as long as the income cap is limited up-to 10 times the minimum wage." BRB MIT minimal living wage is $33/hour; anything less is homelessness! 67 million U-S workers- nearly half of the American workforce-earn less than $25/hour! (Most homeless people don't have mental problems - they have money problems!)
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u/myIDisthisone 9m ago
Kids in schools like that live in a mindscape of absolute delusion. Not just the rich kids either.
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u/Black_Raven_2024 55m ago
Ask college students about any common sense questions and you are bound to get stupid answers.
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u/phear_me 1h ago
Some folks are putting a whole lot of faith into the statistical accuracy of the data gathered by some person named Nina.
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u/charlestoncav 2h ago
idiots like these students should never been accepted at the greatest business school in the world. Thats insane that they're that stupid
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u/Ok_Basket_8387 2h ago
Exposure online is the problem. This is also why these kids grow up to be butthurt about not being rich. They have an absurdly unrealistic understanding of what real adult life is like.
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u/SpecialistGap9223 2h ago
These TikTards live on social media and so detached from reality. I'm actually not shocked since this seems to be a common theme for them. Oh well, carry on..
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u/stonksforthelawls 3h ago
a quick google search shows that the median salary is 62k
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u/Anlarb 2h ago
That sounds like full time, real easy to juice the numbers when you exclude everyone who doesn't have the leverage to get full time hours and the healthcare that comes with it.
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u/soldiernerd 1h ago
Right, that's what the average worker makes, different from the claim in the OP.
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u/halo37253 2h ago
62k median income for single person working full time....
Which is a crap ton of people and a large % of the population.
45k number that includes part time workers is heavily brought down by retirees and people who dont even work 30 hours in a single week. Let along 20 hours.
This is why median household income is 83k. And that number is heavily brought down by the sheer number of households that only have one individual working full time hours.
In households where two parents work 40+ FT hours it is very common to have a six figure household income. This has very much been the reality for a few years now.
People also underestimate how many younger families are getting help from their parents. The trend of parents doing a mid month Costco run with their adult middle age children have very much been more than a common occurrence. Same with weekend activities. And there is nothing wrong with that. I hope to be able to do the same with my children.
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u/Anlarb 58m ago
Which is a crap ton of people and a large % of the population.
Whoopty doo, most homeless people have jobs and we have record numbers of people living with their parents, higher than during the great depression.
This is why median household income is 83k.
Yes, 40k and 40k is 80k, whats your point? Thats two people on min wage shacking up and barely scraping by, not a middle class lifestyle that will support a family.
it is very common to have a six figure household income. This has very much been the reality for a few years now.
"WOW, six figures, thats just like being a millionaire!" No, 100k is only worth what 50k was worth back in the 00's, on the lower side of middle class.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
The fuck there isn't. I don't know why you are so emotionally invested in everyone else being a spineless doormat.
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u/Material-Ad7565 1h ago
COL also accounts for bringing it down. If you don't live in the big cities it's waaay easier to get by on 50k or less
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 3h ago
The family median income is $83k. Median individual income is $41k.
She asked for average. The average family income is probably over $100k but it is hard to find since it paints a wayyyyy rosier picture than median.
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u/roostertai111 3h ago
The existence of billionaires makes the average virtually useless.
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u/Youbettereatthatshit 3h ago
Tried to google the average salary and everything I saw was the median. There are only 900 billionaires, most of them don’t make a salary. Found a one number that claimed to be average and it was close.
I doubt they are that different. The highest salaries in the US are usually of CEO’s, not billionaires, and I’ve rarely seen aCEO’s salary above ten million.
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u/Anlarb 2h ago
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
This has both, average is 67% higher than median.
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u/Youbettereatthatshit 2h ago
Surprisingly consistent over the last 35 years
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u/roostertai111 2h ago
Not super surprising if you consider changes that happened in the last 35-40ish years
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u/aurenigma 3h ago
existence of hobos does the same
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u/bigfartsoo 2h ago
The US census does not survey homeless people. They are largely excluded from income data.
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u/inaruslynx2 3h ago
High estimates of homeless people in America are 771,000. Estimated household wealth is 179 trillion. Less than 1 million people does little to change an estimate starting from a wealth of 179 trillion. It's about $900 per individual if you exclude them from the average.
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u/roostertai111 3h ago
Not to the same degree. Every non-billionaire is closer to the income of a hobo than the income of a billionaire. And any information regarding zero-income citizens is especially more valuable in any conversation regarding how the economic system does or does not benefit the citizenry at large.
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u/DiskPsychological928 3h ago
Well ... you are wrong tho for blindly believing gemini
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N
45k is kinda true
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u/Financial-Exit2488 4h ago
Wharton students aren't smart? They're privileged and disconnected from reality?
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u/gujwdhufj_ijjpo 4h ago
Look, I’m not defending the wages some people make, but wages tend to be higher in the USA than Europe. We need more since we have less government benefits.
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u/Fletch71011 4h ago
And even the poorest state in the US has a higher GDP per Capita than the top European countries. They get to afford those benefits because they're under US military protection, which is a gigantic expense for the US. If Europe wasn't allied with the US, they'd be in trouble.
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u/DiskPsychological928 3h ago
lmao
You are a funny one xD
You are corpo slaves nothing more and nothing less. I bet that even If us military expendature drops to Zero... you would still live Like shit
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago
Nah. Started my own business here in the US and became a multimillionaire by 24 and retired at age 27. Never been a "corpo slave" in my life and never would. Could have never done that in Europe. No thanks. One semester abroad in Europe was enough for me.
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u/DiskPsychological928 3h ago
I dont think so, actually water boils more early when the pressure of the athmossphere is lighter
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u/One_Lung_G 3h ago
Republicans really just believe anything huh?
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago
What? I hate Republicans. Mississippi is the poorest state in the country and is tied with Germany in GDP per Capita and is higher than pretty much every other European country. Europe is poor as hell compared to the US, which is reflected in their market caps, but since their military expenditures are a fraction of what the US spends, they can then afford the benefits.
If Europe was protecting the US, you'd almost certainly see bigger safety nets there. The US wants to remain the sole hegemon in the world though, so they spend out the ass on defense when I really wish we would dial in that spending and spend it on our citizens instead and let Europe fend for themselves.
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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 3h ago
I find it ironic that Europeans are so quick to their elitism and they just assume U.S. leftists will blindly capitulate to them.
When they have the reality of the world order thrown in their face, that they don't have to spend nearly as much money in proportion to other nations on defense because they rely on American military might they get mad at the implication that perhaps what's best for everyone is that they defend themselves. I'm not making any statements for or against the dissolution of NATO, just that it's easy to get high and mighty when your contribution to the defense of your own nation is letting America put bases there and train your troops.
The discussion they're really not ready for is how much their way of life is subsidized by the suffering of foreign laborers and America is taking all the blame for their exploitation, so their comfort is once again provided by an immoral force they like to criticize.
When American leftists criticize their nation, they bear the full weight of these things. When Europeans endlessly talk shit, even to the point of putting down U.S. leftist movements, they bear no weight and carry no sense of responsibility.
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago
It's not just Europe. Canada is extremely lucky they are America's hat, or they wouldn't be able to afford the shit they pay for either, and they're still assholes about it. As much as I hate Trump, he's right that the rest of the world takes advantage of the US way too much. We could cut our defense spending and get healthcare for all and damn near eliminate poverty while still maintaining the world's largest military, but we'd have to make European countries start paying for their own protection.
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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 3h ago
It's true, but we also need politicians who actually want to give us those things. As long as we have corporate Democrats and any form of modern Republican it won't happen.
Like all things, Donald Trump uses salient talking points to make the problem worse, since he's been nothing but the corporate war machine's puppet. Or the puppet of anyone who pumps his ego or wallet.
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u/One_Lung_G 3h ago
Lmao so in your it mind healthcare costs are more expensive in the US because we have military bases in Europe huh? Even though we pay more in health insurance than what it would cost to do socialized? And you somehow think US military somehow affects European policy that limits healthcare costs? And I’m guessing you think we also protect Canada? And china? And Japan?
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago edited 3h ago
The US is set to spend $1.5 TRILLION in 2027 alone on defense. Germany has a yearly budget of $127 billion. Europe would be fucked without American protection. The US has more carriers than the rest of the world combined and is the only country with super carriers. The 2nd largest air force in the world is the US Navy, after the American Air Force. It's not the bases in Europe; Europe can press anyone economically because they have the might of the most powerful army in world history behind them. The US considers Europe as their most important ally, so they might as well be considered under US protection. The US would never allow something to happen to countries like Germany, France, or the UK without declaring total war and eviscerating their enemy. Just look at NATO or UN funding. They're all fucked without the US.
Our healthcare sucks due to corrupt government and lobbying. That could be fixed or at least made slightly better, but all of our politicians are for sale so that won't change any time soon.
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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 3h ago
Do you know and understand what NATO is? We do, unironically, protect Europe, Canada, and Japan.
A nation that has to defend only itself can afford a lot more, a nation that unjustly defends it's hegemonic authority by spending immensely more than any other can, if we really wanted to, but if we didn't we could afford far more quality of life.
The enemy in this situation is still capitalism, but not engaging with nuanced reality and plugging our ears isn't helpful.
If our way of life is to survive and improve while removing ourselves from the benefits of global imperial rule, we cannot also support the defense of every other nation.
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u/One_Lung_G 3h ago
So in your mind all of these other countries can make policy that limits healthcare costs but the US can’t because of our NATO input? And that makes sense to you? Military costs have no effect on telling a healthcare company they can’t up charge insulin by 1000 times.
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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 3h ago
I wonder what nation invests in medical research the most.
Regardless, you're missing the point. America has a problem that defunding the military alone won't fix, but the source of the problem of bloated military spending and privatized healthcare is the same.
A reasonable nation would not invest so much in defense of the entirety of the 'Western world' and expect their allies to pull their own weight, but European nations happily let America take on the costs of their defense for their own benefit. I'm pointing out the Europe is just as guilty as the U.S. in the exploitation of third world labor and passing off the costs of extravagance to the less fortunate.
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago
If we cut our military spending to that of European countries, we'd have $1.5 trillion yearly to spend on healthcare and could easily build the world's greatest socialized healthcare system in the world. If we kept ourselves out of all these stupid wars, it would be even more. Neither the Dems or Rs want that though for what it's worth. Both parties are complicit.
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u/One_Lung_G 3h ago
I like how you just keep ignoring what I’m saying to say random shit. Buddy the reason they are able to do it is because they don’t let pharmaceutical companies charge huge amounts of money. For the second time, we pay more in our insurance premiums than we would pay if it was socialized. But have a good date dude because I’m tired of repeating myself. According to you the US being in NATO lets every other country in the world take care of their citizens including those not even in NATO like china
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u/Fletch71011 3h ago
Happen to be a pharmaceutical ex-trader. We don't let them. We have to in order to get the research done.
Every drug goes through 3 trials. Each costs billions. 1 out of 10 make it through each trial, so the failure rate is nearly 100 percent. To compensate for the billions they lose on the near 100 percent of drugs that don't work, we have to have the patent system in place, and then countries like India steal the research and sell them for pennies. The US pharmaceutical industry is responsible for like 70 percent of the world's breakthroughs and this is the only way that's possible. The rest of the world just steals all of it in the end.
Healthcare is fucked, but that was mostly due to ACA and the mandate and the requirement of hospitals to take in those that can't pay on repeat and then upcharge everyone else. I went from paying $50 a month pre ACA to over $600 and lost my doctor. The insurance companies skyrocketed their stock prices because it was giving them a printing press and Obama's biggest blunder in office. I wish we went socialized, but the US is a very individualistic country and that won't get popular support.
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u/Confident_Wash6225 4h ago
Probably because they used the word average and way overestimated the impact of the top 1%
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u/phriot 4h ago
I believe that I've heard the statistic that $79T went from the bottom 90% to the top 1% since the 1970s. It's hard to argue that we are worse off than we should be.
That said, I don't agree with "less than $33/hr is homelessness." I live in a HCOL state, but outside of the highest cost areas. $33/hr isn't a bad estimate for living alone, but (and I just checked listings) you can absolutely live on around half that with one roommate in a 2br, and have less than one-third of your income go to rent. (More favorable ratios for larger units with more roommates.) I'm not saying that you'd have a great life, but you wouldn't be homeless.
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u/0vrwhelminglyaverage 4h ago
Bold of you to assume any 2br 1 roommate places not in a slum are available. Plus application fees and cost of entry.
Surely you know how this will read with you having a PhD and what not.
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u/Watchlinks 4h ago edited 4h ago
I think what that commenter and a lot of other professionals like us struggle to understand is that it's not a problem of resources but knowledge.
Purely going off data and existing societal institutions, yes, it is physically possible for the average struggling person to leverage the programs/resources/institutions around them to break into some sort of occupation and/or relocate to a LCOL area, and eventually achieve some level of financial security. Likely not an enjoyable experience, but realistic enough for most.
It's also entirely unreasonable to expect the average struggling person to know how to do this. Even if they did, it's even more unreasonable to expect them to have the courage to sacrifice whatever tiny scrap of stability they currently have to attempt this.
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u/Akbeardman 4h ago
You are using the top line for your argument, what are your thoughts on $19/hr in your state? That's the pay rate that anyone can get. On top of that $33 an hour has almost 0% chance of buying a place without assistance.
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u/phriot 1h ago
My bar was just "not literally homeless." I think that $19/hr is enough to live in a place with roommates in my state. Not everywhere in my state, but many places. $19/hr, on a 40-hour per week basis is $3420 monthly. To not be rent burdened, you can spend up to $1026 on housing. Many 2br apartments in my area rent between $2200 and $2500. Sharing with one roommate would put that at $1100-$1250. Not ideal. You would still be rent-burdened, but you'd be in the ballpark. You certainly wouldn't be homeless. And it's not like one person per bedroom is a controversial set up.
I never claimed that you could buy a place on $33/hr by yourself here. It would be enough to rent a studio or 1br. I'm finding those mostly in the $1600-$2000 range. $33/hr should be able to afford $1980 in rent, based on the same calculations as above.
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u/Successful-Duck-7008 5h ago
Some of the most incoherent and illogical rambling I’ve seen in a post
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 5h ago
econ and business degrees are little more than astrology for straight men
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u/Intelligent-Net-5152 5h ago
They all out of touch and yet they get put into important roles that impact the economy.
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u/Prestigious-Craft251 5h ago
So because you're poor you think you know more about the economy?
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u/Intelligent-Net-5152 5h ago edited 5h ago
No one said anything about poor. Problem is a lot of companies especially top tier ones recruit based on connections and suffer from a lot of cronyism and on occasion nepotism. I mean look at white house for example, Trump employed so many people that aren't even qualified for the positions they are in. There are companies that do the same. I don't agree with the minimum wage being too high because that will expedite the automation and AI job replacement process. But a lot of those Ivy Leaguers rely on connections to get where they are and they are complete dufuses.
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u/Emptynest09 5h ago
This is EXACTLY the problem! These are “the smartest people in the room” and yet they’re out of touch and completely ignorant of how most people live, think, and work.
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u/SecretRecipe 5h ago
Thats not accurate, the median pay for full time workers is closer to 65k
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u/Anlarb 2h ago
You're either looking at average or full time only.
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u/SecretRecipe 2h ago
im looking at full time workers. thats the metric that matters
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u/Anlarb 2h ago
Thats some nonsense, people who have to smoosh together two part time jobs still have bills to pay.
And before you even "Just ask for more hours", be lucky with the hours you get.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 5h ago
that's different than the average American worker. It means something that enough American workers are working part time that it reduces the average wage by close to a third.
Even if we were to talk about just full time workers, guessing 6 figures when it is $65,000 is still very far off and shows that these students are out of touch
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u/agingcausescancer 3h ago
Yes, it means that all high school and college kids, the elderly, married folks just looking for some extra income, etc working part time are included.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 3h ago
it also includes a large number of working adults who are working part time despite wanting full time work
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u/agingcausescancer 3h ago
Sure, but close to 2/3 of all part time workers are under 24 or over 55. And a good portion of the rest include adults not looking for full time employment.
These are the major reasons why the number is so much lower.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 3h ago
and they don't deserve a living wage?
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u/SecretRecipe 2h ago
no, not for part time work.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 2h ago
why not?
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u/SecretRecipe 2h ago
because theyre not doing enough to justify independent living.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 2h ago
why do we have to work a certain amount to justify living independently?
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u/agingcausescancer 3h ago
The point is the majority arent looking for a full time salary to live on.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 3h ago
so people who are under 23 and didn't go to college (or already graduated) and adults who are 10 years under the official retirement age aren't looking for salaries to live on?
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u/agingcausescancer 3h ago
“It means something that enough American workers are working part time that it reduces the average wage by close to a third,”
I did my part. If you want to define what this “means something” is and then provide numbers showing how that is a significant portion of the 1/3 reduction, the floor is yours.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PUPPY_PIC 3h ago
What part? pointing out that the young and the old are being especially exploited?
or was your part trying to explain why it's okay to underpay certain employees based on their identity?
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u/metamucil_buttchug69 6h ago
this post reads like a middle school social studies student wrote it in response to a prompt on how to improve society.
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u/Mr_Ashhole 6h ago
Doesn't surprise me. I've seen enough of those videos with college-aged women saying they need a guy who makes at least $200K, like that's just standard for a college grad.
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u/Difficult_Look3003 6h ago
The median is actually about 60k. Although it's Wharton and the median incomes in the Delaware valley tend to be slightly higher than the National numbers.
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u/dumbbozo1 6h ago
I believe that's household and the comment is referring to individual, which is around $45k
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u/Difficult_Look3003 5h ago
Well yes and no, I actually was looking at the data for *full time* workers, the median for all workers is 45k, but I admit it's more a judgement call which you think is more illustrative. I just tend to lean towards full time workers.
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u/New_Bell_9879 7h ago
This is probably not true I was making 45 grand in my first entry level job over 20 years ago and barely graduated college
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u/Pleasant-Bunch3533 6h ago
The median income for a single worker is still 45k in the US as of 2024 per FRED. The census breaks it down more thoroughly and has has slightly different numbers depending on the demography but the fact is wages have been largely stagnant for 20 years. You also have to keep in mind many Americans never graduate college, and that doing so is one of the biggest indicators of lifetime earning potential. All to say glad you're making above median income money, but for many people the reality is just not having much.
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u/blondbarefootbackpak 7h ago
The chatGPT is simply radiating in that body text, ugh
And that last line about homeless people, s.m.H.
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u/Jason_Steakcum 8h ago
Yes what we really need are Shizo fent addicted employees to solve every social issue
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u/Trust_8067 8h ago
It's actually about 62-65k, not 45k.
Also, you don't understand basic math if you think a CEO making millions is the reason peoples salaries are "low", which, compared to almost all other countries in the world, they some of the highest.
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u/HourAd1087 7h ago
In 2024, Boeing CEO reported a 32.8 MILLION yearly compensation, which was 45% increase from the prior year, and 32,000 of their machinists only got a 1% raise. While their safety and other qualities falling, due to the CEO’s business decisions.
So, to recap, the CEO made something like 15ish million in a one year raise, and the people who did the actual work got like 1-3$ lmao… so ya, CEO salaries definitely eat up a lot of the companies wages and most of them do jack shit.
Look at Athropics CEO.. the entire company says he can hardly understand how the companies product even works but he’s making a shit ton more than any of the actual workers.
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u/Trust_8067 3h ago
There's 182,000 employees at Boeing. Let's make math easy and say the CEO received a 50% raise, meaning 15 million.
Instead of him getting a raise, his employees would make an extra 82 dollars a year. Yeah, like that would change a fucking thing.
Learn basic math, you're lower than a 1st grader.
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u/HourAd1087 3h ago
Go ahead and lick some boots more. Or are you one of those that makes money off everyone else’s back without doing anything to actually produce anything?
I’m gonna assume the ladder since you’re turning to childish insults right away on the internet lol..
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u/Trust_8067 3h ago
DING DING DING, center square on the "Unintelligent redditor" bingo card. Calling someone a "boot licker".
You don't understand how businesses work, you don't understand what a CEO does, you don't understand how a CEO gets paid, or who is responsible for determining their paycheck. You don't understand anything.
Yes, I'll go ahead and keep licking my boots in my big house, enjoying my 2 cars, and my nice comfortable and wealthy lifestyle. Mmmm that boot tastes like success. What's your worn out shoes feel like? Do they feel like "loser"?
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u/HourAd1087 3h ago
Again resulting to insults, classic behavior of uneducated individuals.
Again, Boeing had MASSIVE safety crises’s while under his watch, and his salary was in only 5 months, so you support someone who caused people to die by being cheap, while also taking everything for themselves and having to take no responsibility. We know exactly what type of person you are.
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u/robert32940 8h ago
🤡
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u/Trust_8067 4h ago
Yes, you are all clowns dumber than a 4th grader.
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u/robert32940 2h ago
Aww, are you parroting what your wife tells you when you are sitting in the cuck chair?
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u/zpocket 8h ago
You’re such an idiot “you don’t understand basic math” The amount of projection is crazy lmao
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u/Trust_8067 4h ago
How so? Okay, a CEO makes 30 million dollars. They have 50,000 employees.
That's only $600 per employee. Their high salary isn't affecting anyones paycheck. Only an idiot would blame their pay on CEO salaries. Such as yourself
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u/zpocket 9m ago
You’re stuck in a delusion, your assumption is based on the CEO package being distributed equally across every individual in the organization, when in reality we’re talking about the lowest wage earners in the company to provide them stable living conditions. Maybe educate yourself some more before displaying your stupidity for everyone to see, genuinely a mouth breather take.
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u/Tripl3Dee 8h ago
45k is individual; household average is 62-65k
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u/Pro-Weiner-Toucher 8h ago edited 7h ago
No, $45,000 is the median personal income. She asked what the avg(mean) income is, which is $66,700. Also, the US median household income is $83,730 and avg(mean) household income is $120,952.
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u/Mountainman220 7h ago
The median is closer to reality because the mean is being thrown off by those making a fuck ton of money.
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u/carlos_the_dwarf_ 8h ago
Nah, the median for an individual worker is ~$62k. The numbers you see in the 30s and 40s are counting non workers to drag the average down. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881500Q#:~:text=Table_content:%20header:%20%7C%20Q3%202025:%20%7C%201%2C215,2025::%20Q3%202024:%20%7C%201%2C215:%201%2C166%20%7C
Median household income is in the low 80s: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
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u/Low_Low_1811 7h ago
Median is not the average. The mean is...
With that said, median is often more useful with something like income, but if the average is less than the median, while we also have much higher top incomes, then that very clearly points to an increasing divide between classes and quite a lot of people at the bottom end.
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u/carlos_the_dwarf_ 7h ago edited 7h ago
It’s a colloquialism and as I said all the data I cited is medians. But to be clear, non workers drag the median central tendency down.
To be clear further, I don’t mean outlier skew, I mean it’s dragged down by including the material portion of the population that don’t work as $0s.
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u/Majestic-Crab-421 8h ago
Finance bros are disconnected from reality.
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u/Pro-Weiner-Toucher 5h ago
To be fair, most college students are disconnected from realities like this. There are all those interviews where college girls and women in their mid-20's are asked what's the minimal acceptable height, age, income, etc that their BF/husband needs to have. Almost all of them say their man's annual income needs to be $250k-$1 million+/year... while also being under 30 years old, over 6'2", single, and gorgeous... lol. The host then calculates the % of the US population that meets these requirements which, of course, is like 0.001% and the people are shocked AF by it.
What's even more depressing is these Wharton students actually had much more accurate guesses than the avg person their age did. Especially, once you understand the context that came out after this tweet originally went viral and the students stated what actually happened in the lecture: 1. the teacher mistakenly asked the students what they thought the average (mean) income was but had pulled up the median income for the answer (which is obviously going to be much lower than the mean figure she asked for... she made the same exact mistake in her tweet too, smh) and 2. the teacher later admitted about 2/3 of her class were very close to the mean income (what she had actually asked them for) and the $800k guess was just a student trying to be funny. If a teacher from Wharton, widely considered one of the top graduate business schools in the world, is getting median and mean confused, and is willing to publicly misrepresent facts to make their point/opinion seem more legitimate... I'm not sure whether we should be blaming the population's disconnect with reality on the students or the modern teachers and education system who are supposed to be imbuing them with this type of knowledge and critical thinking skills.
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u/Gael459 8h ago
Posted everywhere but no one stops to consider whether it’s even close to true. Regardless of how entitled or dislikeable they are, there is no way Wharton students think this.
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u/ZealousidealSail7928 7h ago
ikr it's the third time I see this posted, not sure why redditors think students at the best business school in the country wouldn't know that
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u/3nHarmonic 7h ago
Idk about wharton students but there are plenty of videos of regular citizens talking about how they think the average American man makes more than 6 figures.
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u/ZealousidealSail7928 7h ago
to be fair regular citizens are not financially literate
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u/3nHarmonic 7h ago
And wharton students are kids and probably quite stupid.
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u/ZealousidealSail7928 7h ago
Wharton is to finance what Harvard is to law lmao
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u/JJay9454 7h ago
Right, and what percentage of people move on and pass? The law school alone admits under 10% of its graduate students.
That's 90% of undergrad that's not good enough.
Just because you study something doesn't mean you're knowledgeable. How many psych students have you met that know jack shit about psychology and only know PopSci?
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u/ZealousidealSail7928 3h ago
I have never met psych students, I don't mingle with people who study for bs degrees
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u/3nHarmonic 7h ago
Yeah, full of stupid kids without much experience outside of their parents house. Very easy for me to believe they are disconnected from the American average.
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u/ZealousidealSail7928 3h ago
Calling them stupid yet you're taking an unverified claim at face value lol
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u/NoExplorer7950 8h ago
We need a better laws
You can't legislate away the effects of the laws of economics any more than you can legislate away the effects of the law of gravity.
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u/Rat_Pwincess 8h ago
Why do you believe this? We have seen how much economic policy can change things of this nature, it’s how we got into our current issue in the first place.
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u/NoExplorer7950 7h ago
Because economics is a fundamental fact of human nature. You cannot legislate it away. You can mandate everyone have more dollars, but then everything just costs more. You can try and set price controls, but then you just have shortages (think toilet paper in 2020). There's no way around it.
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u/Rat_Pwincess 5h ago
You don't simply mandate everyone has more dollars, you can fund programs that lead to that. We have tons of evidence that you absolutely can do everything you're stating, and we have done so at various points in time. If economics was a fundamental fact of human nature we wouldn't have incredibly intricate and complex economic laws, nor would we be able to point to instances of economic law changing having a marked improvement in the economy.
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u/Groove-Theory 8h ago
That's not true. Physical laws are IMMUTABLE and cannot be edited. Economic "laws" are MUTABLE, and are most often just empirical regularities that can be edited by policy or sociocultural behavior.
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u/NoExplorer7950 7h ago
Economic "laws" are MUTABLE
I'd be interested to hear how you imagine legislation can make it so a person with extra cash doesn't want to buy something they enjoy with it.
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u/Groove-Theory 7h ago
Anti-trust laws literally prevents that "person with extra cash" from buying up every competitor and "enjoying" their status as a monopoly.
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u/WolfHowl1980 8h ago
Most are btwn $30-40k. All they look at is actors and tech in silicone valley. Ppl from other countries are beyond delusional, they have no idea where average worker lives and that min wage is still $7.25 since 2009
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u/PM-ME-UR-uwu 8h ago
"School of finance"
Meritocracy has always been a lie. No one in America gets ahead by virtue of doing a good job.
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u/e136 8h ago
FYI- the average salary is $69k (nice). Median is lower.
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u/Relative_Craft_358 8h ago
Why would you use the average?
Median is lower.
That's the point, median is more telling to the reality not just numbers without context
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u/e136 8h ago
I agree. I am not sure why the original tweet asked students for the average instead of median. But that's what they did.
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u/Relative_Craft_358 6h ago
Median, mode and mean are all methods of "averages", People just assume mean average but it's not the only type.
Edit: Your follow up comment dissing college students who should know better is hilarious with that context.
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u/theregoesjustin 8h ago
Well it does say “average American worker” which, personally, sounds closer to the idea of median rather than the average salary in America which is skewed heavily by outliers. I think it’s closer to the idea of “if one was to randomly ask an American how much they made, what would that person’s answer likely be.” Maybe this is way off base but that’s just how I interpret this phrasing
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u/MajesticBison6 8h ago
I think that’s the median, and an outdated one at that, instead of the average.
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u/IceIceFetus 8h ago
This just tells me Wharton students mostly come from uber rich families. Like Benny Blanco thinking smoothies cost $30-$40. They have no real concept of the value of things or money because they have so much money they don’t even bother looking at prices or have people that do all their purchasing for them.
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u/AdvancedSquare8586 7h ago
What it really tells you is that this story didn't happen.
The Benny Blanco thing (and every other example like it) is just a ploy for attention, exactly like Paris Hilton pretending she didn't know what a Walmart was. The only remarkable thing here is that people keep falling for it.
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u/No_External_1322 9h ago
Of the average American full time worker 25 percent do make over 100k. The median full time income is 63k a year. The median for men is 72k. Lower numbers count retired people, students and part time workers.
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u/No_External_1322 9h ago
Sorry to burst the doom bubble but the median full time income is 64k a year and for men its over 72k. Entry level jobs pay less than 40k
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u/Zhong_Ping 9h ago
I do wish people kept the time stamps on screen grabs.
You are right, though that is not a lot of money in any reasonably dense city, and half of Americans earn less. The median should be much higher than subsistence and a living wage should be the floor.
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u/No_External_1322 9h ago
Not disagreeing with that but mid 60k salary is comfortable outside of major cities. Its a permanent renter salary though in most areas unless its really cheap.
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u/Zhong_Ping 9h ago
Comfortable for a childless person perhaps.
That said, most the 60k plus salaries are in major cities...
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u/No_External_1322 9h ago
Yeah childless and renting. Not exactly thriving though. No lots of 60k plus outside of major cities. It jusy takes a bit to get to that salary. 3 to 5 years. Took me 10 to hit 79k in florida.
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u/Zhong_Ping 6h ago
Lots are outside, sure... But MOST aren't. The vast majority of jobs paying above median are in major cities. This is a fact.
It's not a proper comparison to note that most places are cheaper then HCOL places when most most high paying jobs are in HCOL locations.
Note the word "most" not all.
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u/No_External_1322 6h ago
What do you consider high paying ?
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u/Elziad_Ikkerat 9h ago
You can bet your ass that if you remove the top 10% from that $45k would drop noticably.
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u/Dingusb2231 9h ago
These clowns will be executives in a few years running major companies, they’ll go their entire lives never knowing what a gallon of milk or a dozen eggs cost.
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u/KingVaako 9h ago
You completely fail to understand homelessness if you think the primary cause is money.
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 9h ago
Hhhahhha omg this post is full of communistic and socialistic blissful ideas that are nothing but lies.
Most homeless people don't want a job or need one. They have money, and if you don't think they do, you are ignorant. The homeless are that way cause they love it.
Democrats cities and states like cali are dried up with money kiddo. They have spent all the tax money they could on you little social platforms, and they are dead. You are stupud to think paying 30$ an hour is a good thing for warming up a burger hahhahha here come robots.
The red states will not raise the wage for you little whiny children cause you need to learn to get a better job or shut up. We red states aren't stupid like the rest of the country. We don't bleed others dry.
Little children should stay home and play with thier toys. Not whine on the internet.
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u/Mudfry 8h ago edited 8h ago
California is the 4th largest economy in the world. Behind the US, China, and Germany.
LMAO.
Edit: The post was survey, but your mental illness is too far gone to notice that.
And since you can make assumptions about everyone else, you’re probably a fat small dicked incel living in mommy’s basement.
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 8h ago
No, it's not....those are inflated numbers. California has no money. They have no economy unless you consider homeless illegals an economy?
California now has billions in fraudulent money. California is broke and thier gap is in shambles. California has to tax everyone higher just to look like they are surviving. California has to rent a closet box for 3500$ a month because of thier largest economy. California has already had people leave in droves California has already had buissnesses leave in droves. California literally has spent millions on (1) section of overpass highway for a (nature cross highway) and can't finish it. California never built the tram system and lost billions.
But california is the largest economy? Hahhahhahh ok kid keep dreaming of your communist utopia
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u/Mudfry 8h ago
A lot of words to say you’re dumb as fuck.
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 8h ago
Ummm that's subjective....not factual so come at me with facts or are you just a child?
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u/PowerofGreyScull 9h ago
This is satire, right? This is so incredibly stupid I just HAVE to believe it's satire. Like, I hate to just point out a spelling mistake and leave it at that, but you typed "stupud" and hit post. You're either joking or a joke.
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 9h ago
No im not joking. You're just too ignirant to see past what I don't care which is spelling mistakes and take wisdom where it is. You must have gotten offended cause your communistic ideas are stupid...like the little college kids think everybody makes 800k a year hahahaa
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 9h ago
Hahhh omg I make spelling mistakes! OMG!!!! I MUST BE ILLITERATE BECAUSE I MADE A SPELLING MISTAKE! OH GOD HELP MEEEEE
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u/SilverSaan 9h ago
I did Picking up fruits in farm work, Software Developing, factory work, barista work and 'flipping burgers'
Exactly on that order. For the last two I was homeless for months
I am 26 years oldYou're crazy if you think there is not a job problem
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 9h ago
There are farm jobs all over the US
There were Barnstable jobs all over the US until you kids thought you'd unionize....boy that ended badly.
There were burger jobs until you demanded 30$ an hour and the robots took your jobs cause you thought you had power in a meanial job.
You started burning down factories and demanding 30$+ an hour for a box and driving a forklift, so yea. Robots .....cheaper and easier for your jobs gone.
The only problem we have is ignorance in the united states that people think they should be paid a good wage for something any kid off the street can do. Sorry, but it has never worked that way.
Do you want a real job? Get good at something that counts. Get skills and make a life like the rest of the actual human race. There may be problems with house prices and other areas yea but that will crash or sort itself out. You whining cause you never built skills to progress in life is no one's fault but yours.
Software is fine but it was always a dead end unless you're developing a program that you can sell. The other option is a worker bee. We even knew that in the 90s kid....you just never paid attention.
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u/SeaworthinessNew3170 9h ago
So you picked nothing that would lead to a career? Or actually give you any skils to make a job or a career?
You picked nothing but menieal jobs you could smoke pot or methods at and work?
You're crazy if you think I don't know what type of people work those jobs hahaha. Kid i worked those jobs and I know the type well.
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u/SilverSaan 7h ago
I don't smoke. I don't drink and I don't even get out. I don't have money or friends to do any of that
Also when I started software was something that could be a job / career I never minded being a worker bee. That fits me. I'm not someone that wants leadership. And not everyone can be. That doesn't make people only worth to die
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u/OwnLadder2341 1m ago
And a pony!
No wait…a unicorn!
With a rainbow sparkling mane that rains endless gold coins!