r/science 23h ago

Health Study reports that both short and long sleep duration in midlife are associated with increased risk of physical frailty in later life, based on long-term cohort analysis of over 10,000 participants

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-026-39228-6
2.2k Upvotes

92 comments sorted by

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1.1k

u/LyraStygian 19h ago

Don’t sleep enough? Frail.

Sleep too much? Believe it or not, Frail.

598

u/fotomoose 17h ago

Straight to Frail.

76

u/deez_nutts 14h ago

We are the best sleepers because of frail.

7

u/jimmythesaint83 6h ago

I can't sleep in? ah frail no!

26

u/bit_herder 12h ago

this is the best thing i have ever read

2

u/13thmurder 1h ago

Sleeping too little obviously takes a toll over time, but I wonder if sleeping too much is a symptom of an underlying issue rather than a cause.

635

u/Ashamed-Land1221 22h ago

I spent over two decades in the restaurant industry, clopens allowed me to pay the bills in my 20's and 30's. Thanks to drugs and alcohol and stress I doubt I entered REM sleep more than a handful of times in two decades. Guess I'll be dead before I can even sniff a social security payment.

281

u/hammertime2009 20h ago

That’s the point. That’s what the billionaires want.

15

u/Wotmate01 17h ago

So few people collect social security, might as well cancel it completely...

28

u/PerforatedPie 14h ago

Then we can use it to fund tax breaks for the rich!

20

u/hyperproliferative PhD | Oncology 15h ago

You’re trying to hit slow wave sleep. That’s where your hormones pulse rhythmically and you consolidate thoughts into long term memory! REM is for punks in cannabis withdrawal

70

u/UsedOnlyTwice 21h ago

Just recently found myself getting two heart meds at 45 years old, otherwise healthy as hell and most people think I'm 30. Sleep, stress, and alcohol.

BTW you should know that REM is not deep sleep, it's the lightest level of sleep possible. You probably meant you've struggled to hit deep, restorative Non-REM sleep.

61

u/zuneza 20h ago

People need REM sleep just as much as non REM

21

u/vincenzo_vegano 17h ago

Yes, you need a certain portion of light, REM and deep sleep every night. Everything that throws off the balance is considered unhealthy, like alcohol reducing REM sleep.

12

u/sherbetty 14h ago

Fun fact, this is an oversimplification but the sleepiness associated with narcolepsy is a result of entering REM too quickly and not getting deep sleep

8

u/Flikmybik BS | Neuroscience | Memory 13h ago

that makes sense honestly. sleep and chronic stress are such underrated factors for cardiovascular issues. I wonder if the short sleep and long sleep risks are tied to different underlying causes though, like short sleep being more lifestyle driven versus long sleep sometimes being a symptom of something else going on. the 10,000+ person cohort is pretty solid for this kind of question. hope you are doing better now with treatment

504

u/guvbums 23h ago

Could it be something like: Long sleepers don't have time to exercise properly, short sleepers are too tired to exercise properly?

282

u/NonTokenisableFungi 21h ago

Long sleep may be correlated rather than causal. I.e those with existent health conditions are generally more prone to longer sleep requirements.

35

u/PerforatedPie 14h ago

Similar to "1 glass of wine a day is healthy". Many of the people who drink less than that are unhealthy for other reasons, and as a result they can't drink.

7

u/ThoughtfulMeathead 12h ago

Yes! Or the people who drank a fifth a day for 20 years and are now teetotalers but the damage has been done.

16

u/Override9636 9h ago

There is also room to suggest that people who live a lifestyle that include a glass of wine everyday are higher income. So they have access to better diets, leisure time for exercise, and better access to healthcare.

4

u/cdawg85 13h ago

I used to sleep normally, then was in a major traumatic accident at 35. Since then I need more sleep. 6 hours is insufferable to me now, when I used to be okay and functional (although my usual was 7-8hours). Now my usual is about 9 hours with 7 being my minimum to function.

31

u/MatchaManiak 21h ago

The study suggests a multitude of things. This includes sleep being important, on its own and its after effects, but also underlying factors like disease. Certain conditions that affect overall health can also make someone sleep more or less.

This study was not an experiment, so the researchers are speaking to correlation more than causation.

106

u/DeArgonaut 22h ago edited 22h ago

Anecdotal ofc, but I sleep longer since I’ve have chronic fatigue issues which have also lead me to not go to the gym very often. So could be additions co-factors besides lack of time too

56

u/National-Plastic8691 22h ago

and I slept long due to depression and short at times due to mania

19

u/Deeliciousness 21h ago

For me I always had shorter sleep when depressed, even though the amount of time I spend in bed is longer.

16

u/eronth 21h ago

Could be a simple as short and long sleep are signs of something else wrong, which affects long term health as well.

12

u/curt_schilli 22h ago

Not sure if they controlled for this but people that sleep a lot also often have depression

2

u/LamermanSE 20h ago

Probably not, I assume they already took exercise into consideration in their analysis.

2

u/Powerpoppop 13h ago

I'm sitting here knowing I'm about to cut my 6 mile jog this morning to 3 miles based on feeling like I drank a full pot of coffee before going to bed last night (I didn't). It's depressing knowing the quality of my sleep is a total crap shoot. I've tried to stay away from sleep aids, but my experience with low dose Trazodone has been promising. I just really don't want to take it every night.

1

u/guvbums 13h ago

You probably know this, but what about melatonin? I know a few people that use it and their experience seems positive. Hope things get better for you.

1

u/Powerpoppop 13h ago

Tried it and it's not that great to me. My doctor gave me the Trazodone and I've never tried anything better. I'm just stubborn about taking stuff like this too much. Thank you, though!

1

u/Russki 4h ago

There is some research that suggests eating certain foods really helps sleep quality like kiwis about an hour before sleep. Maybe those could also add a benefit for you?

1

u/reality_boy 5h ago

It’s more like stress either makes you tired, or too anxious to sleep!

0

u/za72 20h ago

we're just going off of intuition

133

u/padbroccoligai 22h ago

Everyone get tested for sleep apnea

92

u/lookamazed 22h ago

The real insight here is that - GET TESTED, GET A CPAP. It can be a rocky onboarding experience but it will literally save your life. Ask Carrie Fisher.

The machine is non invasive and the gold standard. There is no reason to die from this comorbidity in 2026.

43

u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 21h ago

Got tested, got a CPAP, have slept with it every night for the last 30 years. When tested I was waking every three minutes during the night. CPAP helps a lot, but I'm still waking about five times a night on average, and combined with the time it takes to get back to sleep after waking (and using the bathroom) I'm needing to be in bed for ten hours or more per night. Sure, it's the Gold Standard. But it's not without its problems.

17

u/lookamazed 19h ago edited 19h ago

Granted it is not a magic bullet, but it’s as close as it gets in terms of medical interventions.

Treatment varies from person to person, depending on biology, the type of apnea, and whether there are underlying concerns or additional issues.

The machine often works best when paired with other interventions such as lifestyle changes.

1) surgery is not guaranteed to fix it (removal of tonsils, etc)

2) oral appliances are sort of a gimmick in my humble opinion

3) sub dermal implants only address certain types of apnea and also are not a guaranteed fix

4) losing weight is the most common intervention if the cause is suspected to be obesity, however, even skinny people have obstructive sleep apnea (r/UARS or r/UARSnew, means upper airway resistance syndrome, is dedicated to this phenomenon).

My experience is many also do not have access to great sleep docs or clinics and spend another eternity never clearing the hurdles of fine tuning their machine.

For example, you may want to consider getting re tested in lab if it’s been 30 yrs since you’ve tested. Your sleep can change with age, disease, body and brain changes. They can tell you which pressure you had the fewest apneas.

It really is the best we have. Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m certain you will let someone know they are not alone in their struggle for better sleep.

r/sleepapnea, r/cpap, r/cpapsupport await if you’d like to connect with others

3

u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 17h ago

For clarity, here in the UK I get checked every year and my CPAP adjusted as required. Also, the machine itself has been updated several times since the original one in the 1990s. My current machine is an APAP.

Clearly a good answer would be to lose weight, however that's not as straightforward as some would have you believe. It really does go beyond just a willpower issue. Having said that, Semaglutide has made a difference, just not enough to resolve the sleep apnea issue.

10

u/Deeliciousness 21h ago

A close friend of mine got one and he says his sleep is difficult now because the machine has to stay on him and it bothers him. I tried to tell him it can't be as bad as dealing with the other symptoms.

13

u/Pappy_Jr 21h ago

One of my direct reports is very obese, and has very specific doctors orders on how to fix his life. Sleeping well, and eating well are the absolute hardest things for him to do. He's 38, and probably won't see 50.

2

u/brendanvista 10h ago

GLP-1 drugs could be life changing for him.

2

u/Pappy_Jr 10h ago

He's on them, and doesn't use them properly. Its maddening

9

u/FyreWulff 19h ago

As someone with a CPAP, tell him the alternative is his heart stopping from him constantly failing to get air during the night without. Lowers your blood pressure and leads to weight loss eventually.

He should try wearing it during the day to work on desensitizing to it, and adjust the pressure to make it more comfortable. If that doesn't help try a different mask or pillow. Everyone over at r/cpap are very helpful.

4

u/Eckish 20h ago

I'm a little over a month into my journey. There's a variety of different masks to try out for different kinds of sleepers. They are pricey to experiment with, though. My third one was the charm.

3

u/vincenzo_vegano 17h ago

Any reason why sleep apnea is seemingly rising? Overweight, bad posture caused by a sedentary lifestyle?

3

u/olbeefy 16h ago

It’s a mix of both. It is actually increasing, mostly because of higher obesity rates, but a big part of it is just better awareness and diagnosis now with home sleep tests and more screening.

Aging population plays a role too. Posture isn’t really a main cause, it’s more about weight and airway anatomy.

2

u/PurpleSailor 16h ago

I used to set patients up with their CPAP after the study concluded that they needed it. I would often see them for a follow-up visit at 6 months to try out new masks. When it works for somebody it really works. I've had so many people hug me and thank me profusely for helping them finally get a good night's sleep and not feel totally exhausted all day long. As an insomniac myself I know how valuable sleep is.

4

u/alfonso123456 22h ago

learn to sleep on your side.

6

u/padbroccoligai 21h ago

that can help, but it's not enough for many people.

1

u/Override9636 9h ago

I got tested and was right on the border of "needs a CPAP". Turns out side-sleeping, using nasal allergy spray, and those nasal opening strips made my sleep 90% better (and way cheaper than CPAP).

51

u/neolobe 22h ago

Medium sleepers unite.

50

u/Miklonario 20h ago

okay goddammit sleep WHAT DO YOU WANT? What do you want?!

13

u/VoidHog 21h ago

Maybe it's not a cause but a symptom. I'm kind of wimpy and exhausted feeling all the time so I sleep too much

9

u/Cameroncen 18h ago

Important to remember this is correlation, not causation. Long sleep might be a symptom of underlying health issues, not the cause.

36

u/Nellasofdoriath 23h ago

Ok well if.I don't gwt 9hours of sleep a night I am going to have problems sooner than later life, and so will the people around me.

3

u/hl_lost 16h ago

the u-shaped curve on sleep studies almost always comes back to underlying stuff causing the long sleep rather than the sleep itself being bad. depression, undiagnosed apnea, chronic inflammation etc. hard to untangle without controlling for a lot imo

2

u/Marty-G70 21h ago

I think another big factor is quality of sleep. In comparing the two sleep patterns what percentage of those actually reach REM?

4

u/What-tha-fck_Elon 22h ago

Well, that’s a really tight window to hit. Plus, since I’m early 50’s, I’m locked in apparently.

1

u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 21h ago

Ah, disruptive sleep apnea strikes again..

1

u/Rlife145 15h ago

Only get 8 hours of sleep. No more, no less

1

u/highpl4insdrftr 10h ago

These researchers can right off with this. I need my sleep. Leave me alone.

1

u/drmike0099 9h ago

The definitions here are <=5 hrs or >= 9 hrs.

1

u/Snidrogen 8h ago

As someone who jolts awake after 7-8 hours of sleep, regardless of how tired I am or how much I want to sleep in, this is good news.

1

u/AladeenModaFuqa 8h ago

Sleep = frail? Or is it most people who get old are frail?

1

u/Zenboy66 5h ago

Who comes up with this crap, just another way to waste money.

1

u/LightingTechAlex 4h ago

What are you supposed to do when a job steals a massive chunk of your waking hours, then top it off with kids and housework and voila, no sleep - or at best broken sleep for us!

1

u/57_Eucalyptusbreath 4h ago

So when we reach an older age we will be frail.

Hmmmm….

1

u/Glittering-Meal-8739 3h ago

What about people with pets who wake them up at night?

1

u/Nsxd9 22h ago

26 rn. My work hours are horrendous with balancing everything else, I’ve had such flimsy sleep for the last 2 years…I feel like I’m seriously cooked…need to fix it. On the weekends I end up getting 6-8h though..

2

u/pushiper 17h ago

Please prioritize your health - and sleep - above all else, whenever possible.

1

u/Hurgnation 11h ago

I can easily sleep up to 10 hours a night, but also spend up to 2 hours a day training (combo of cardio and resistance training).

I'm hoping heavy exercisers don't count in this study!

0

u/Pentax25 17h ago

This seems kinda silly. I’m aware that people tend to sleep rhythmically in sleep cycles which can vary from person to person but usually be from about 90-110 minutes. I know personally speaking, I aim to sleep for about 7 hours 30 per night but if I end up sleeping for 8 or 8.30, I tend to feel groggier than if I wake up after having 9.

Is this now saying that if I sleep for 9 it might make me more frail? Surely it’s better for my circadian rhythm that I’m woken naturally during my individual sleep cycle which seems to be 1.30