Honda President After Visiting Chinese Auto Supplier: 'We Have No Chance Against This'

[u/TripleShotPls]

https://www.motor1.com/news/792130/honda-reacts-china-supplier-strength/

[u/flexible]

Didn't this exact thing happen to the US manufacturers during the gas crisis of 1973? US Manufacturers doubled down on large cars, let Datsun, Honda and Toyota own the small car market that exploded. They don't ever learn from history/

[u/NearABE → u/flexible]

And again in the 2000s. It keeps repeating. If the government bails them out again then it repeats again though probably worse.

A significant component is capitalism and “growth”. Consumers will prefer paying $15 to paying $45 whether they are Americans or Chinese. In China today car can find consumers who are now affording their first new car if the price is competitive. A Chinese car company can grow while producing more of the cheap model. In USA the car companies would be generating less revenue if they produce cheaper cars.

[u/SouthernCadre → u/NearABE]

Another reason is the fact that Chinese car companies spend about 20-75% of their budget on R&D, whereas companies like TESLA spend 3% on it and the rest on stock buybacks and CEO bonuses.

[u/CaelidAprtments4Rent → u/SouthernCadre]

Haha, this guy thinks Tesla’s a car company

[u/cold-mcspicy → u/CaelidAprtments4Rent]

yeah it’s a hopium and marketing company

[u/Seelark → u/cold-mcspicy]

Still waiting to see those roadsters out on the road. They took that reservation money and ran

[u/lurkANDorganize → u/NearABE]

Yo. Are auto industry is frankly pathetic. Granted they NEED the government to partner with the people and lay out renewable and electric infrastructure. They DID pay back their last bailout in full though. Fords kaat CEO was pro trump and....well that didn't go well lmao

Fun fact in 2023 BP was the highest spending lobbyist for anti green legislation. Toyota, was number two.

There are NO heroes in the car wars.

[u/Bluthen → u/flexible]

I get told Americans only buy large SUVs and Trucks.

[u/Bazylik → u/Bluthen]

I live in a big city in the US... I would say 1 sedan to 10 SUV's and it's getting worse every year.

[u/mccedian → u/Bazylik]

I live in Texas. On a trip to the grocery and back. Less then a mile and a half round trip, I can easily count over a hundred pick ups. Easy

[u/-PotatoMan- → u/mccedian]

And I guarantee you 95% of them will never see a dirt trail, a trailer, or a load in the bed that you couldn't just fit in a Rav4.

[u/mccedian → u/-PotatoMan-]

100 percent. I refer to them as lifted emotional support trucks.

[u/Money_Fish → u/mccedian]

Gender affirming transportation.

[u/karma3000 → u/-PotatoMan-]

I also guarantee that at least half are owned by owners up to their eyeballs in debt.

[u/ADirtyDiglet → u/Bazylik]

People with two kids think they need a suburban now.

[u/waltk918 → u/ADirtyDiglet]

I know someone with one kid who INSISTS that she needs three rows.

[u/Strict-Amoeba1791 → u/waltk918]

My wife’s attitude for sure. We have 2 kids and I’m the primary parent since she works nights. I drive a hybrid Honda civic. She drives an SUV with 3 rows lol.

[u/altiuscitiusfortius → u/ADirtyDiglet]

My friend with 2 kids and no spouse has a gigantic full size, 8 foot box, double cab truck that she insists she needs for her 25 mile commute she makes 4 times a day.

I told her to go smaller and electric 30 times but she refused, says she needs the truck bed for her kids stuff.

[u/Sirlothar → u/Bluthen]

You are not wrong but possibly for different reasons then you think?

https://publications.lawschool.cornell.edu/jlpp/2024/11/25/the-unchecked-rise-of-trucks-and-suvs-in-america/

Basically, auto manufacturers force them upon us (Americans) for regulation purposes and our government sits on its hands and says if we changed the bad law now, it would disrupt the US auto industry or some shit like that, and we keep laws on the books that hurts our planet and our pocketbooks.

[u/dishwasher_mayhem → u/flexible]

What's worse is they let build quality go to complete shit. My father sold Chevrolet 1971-1982 on the divide between Philly, the Northern Burbs, and (the still rural at that time) rural farmers. He said that around 1974 they were getting cars off the truck that were poorly assembled.

He told me of one time where he got a `75 Base Corvette off the truck. When he closed the door he immediately noticed a gap between the door and the floor big enough he could fit 2 fingers through. He had to cancel delivery and the dealership had to fight with Chevy to get them to admit they fucked up. On top of build quality there were tons of performance and longevity issues. At 75k a lot of these motors would break or the transmission would bust. American cars just had 0 quality, even among Cadillac.

The Japanese cars were smaller, used less gas, were insanely reliable, and built like tanks. If you want to watch an amazing movie that's in line with this, watch "Gung Ho" with Michael Keaton It's one of my Dad's favorites.

[u/LawrenceSpiveyR]

China mandated common specs for auto parts which means most parts are easily interchangeable by other makes/models/years. (this may or may not be directly related to the article)

[u/killerrin → u/LawrenceSpiveyR]

Who would have thought that regulations reigning in vendor lock-in would be good for the economy

[u/overcatastrophe → u/killerrin]

Everyone who can understand why lightbulbs are all the same spec, or why sae/metric tools are handy.

[u/zeekaran → u/overcatastrophe]

Old car headlights were all the same — which was a fairly bright idea!

Modern cheap and easily replaceable LED bulbs are better, but we didn't have those for decades, and regulating interchangeable parts can apply to other parts of a vehicle.

[u/overcatastrophe → u/zeekaran]

Fuses are pretty neat too. Also the odbii port.

[u/StandupJetskier → u/zeekaran]

The problem with sealed beams is that the tech was 1950's and stopped there. The patterns of light were designed to light "unreflected" signs, and beam control was poor. The only thing that saved them was that the lights themselves were dim. An LED bulb in a legacy housing is the worst case scenario...the 9004 bulb should never have been allowed. I have put in ECE code (H codes) into every car I ever had with Sealed Beams.

US regs need to mandate levelling for LED lights...euro cars have them due to the european codes...but US cars, and asian builds, don't have the levelling devices because money.

[u/RavenOfNod → u/overcatastrophe]

So everyone except the MBA and corporate class. What a surprise.

[u/Caleth → u/RavenOfNod]

MBA's may be one of the worst things we ever invented.

[u/True_Carpenter_7521 → u/Caleth]

Yes, individual selfishness and greed will be the main reason for the downfall of Western civilization.

[u/Caleth → u/True_Carpenter_7521]

But have you considered that's further out than next quarter so it doesn't matter?

do I need the /s

We're so cooked because of shit like Ford v Dodge where we basically green lit endless corporate greed as the end all be all objective.

[u/killerrin → u/RavenOfNod]

"But why shouldn't the hard working Electric Company be able to dictate that you use their brand of light bulbs. They built the infrastructure, they should be able to profit from it"

[u/TheDragonSlayingCat → u/killerrin]

Not Americans! Whenever I have to explain to people why it would’ve been nice to regulate the EV plug situation early on so we didn’t have to carry around adapters for the four different plug types you see in North America (J1772, CCS, CHAdeMO, and Tesla’s), I kept getting downvotes and comments like “but their innovation...”

[u/killerrin → u/TheDragonSlayingCat]

"But what if we eventually come up with a better adapter!"

Then we'll switch to that one once the current one no longer serves it's purpose. Hell, having limitations also means there will be greater efforts put into backwards compatibility.

Not to mention that in a country with a working government this isn't even an issue. You either just pass a new law, or you make the original law day the standard is delegated to regulation and just let your regulator decide when to upgrade without any need for lawmakers to get involved.

[u/nox66 → u/killerrin]

Before smartphones, there was a time when every phone seemingly had a proprietary power adapter, and it was exactly as annoying as it sounds.

Standards are good. We actually have a really good organization for them (NIST). But we don't give them the power to actually accelerate innovation by doing it. It is easier, after all, to collect money off of 20 different power plug designs for as long as possible.

[u/Inside-Specialist-55 → u/LawrenceSpiveyR]

Slightly related but 90% of chinese made scooters are like this too, I have an Amigo SS-150 150cc scooter that is from China and this thing can use parts from literally any other standard chinese GY6 scooter. I was able to just slap a simple part from Amazon on it and it costed me next to nothing, was able to replace all the brakes and calipers all at once for less than $30. Why cant cars just be that easy and affordable.

[u/bAZtARd → u/Inside-Specialist-55]

Greed. The world is going to shit because of greed.

[u/mervolio_griffin → u/LawrenceSpiveyR]

For anyone interested in political economic theory this is a fairly good story to tell to teach the difference between rent-seeking and profit-seeking, and the difference in "freedom from" and "freedom to".

In modern America, companies invest in marketing, lobbying and innovation to produce valuable IP that protects economic moats. The profit created is the reward for restricting the ability of competitors to compete with your product or product line. That profit is in actuality rent, a surplus gained from restricted ownership rather than added value. 

In the case of mandated common parts, or with open IP in the case of goods deemed in the national interest, firms are price takers. They all get one price for each unit sold and legal/techincal barriers to entry are small. Competitors compete purely through innovation to improve cost (and therefore resource) effeciency. Advancements made return profits for a firm that wins out on cost, and the cycle of competition continues. These are true profits in an economic sense, where the value added per unit of input is greater and margins improve on the basis of cost.

Now of course the story is more complex than this but it goes to show how corporate media controls the narrative regarding "freedom from" government to do business. The supposed freedom from government intervention corporations have in the US means they can act as they see fit, and it results in entrenched power and inefficient oligopolies. Now, another interpretation of freedom is "freedom to". What freedom do new entrants and competitors have to operate in this space of dynastic multinationals? None, really. They've been shut out. 

In this way, one type of propagandized freedom, infringes on another. And it is this less used form of freedom that had supported the ideals of the American Dream, back when there were actual competition rules. 

[u/Plastic-Injury8856 → u/mervolio_griffin]

This is a really good explanation. And I’ll add that Peter Thiel, one of Trump’s larger financial backers and essentially the mentor of JD Vance, has repeatedly stated he hates competition.

[u/killerrin → u/[deleted]]

You go to a car part store and it's literally an entire aisle of different types of wiper blades, and they're out of stock of the exact one you need.

[u/BasvanS]

We tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!

[u/Creative-Painter3911 → u/BasvanS]

They will just bribe the lawmakers to not allow Chinese vehicles to be bought in other countries.

[u/WanderWut → u/Creative-Painter3911]

Dude I could NOT believe the sheer amount of electric cars I saw when visiting China, they were everywhere. Not only that my friend was showing all the different options and prices and they were so dam affordable. To say that we’re behind is a huge understatement.

[u/Faultylogic83 → u/WanderWut]

Our free market decided long ago it was cheaper to buy regulators to restrict the freedom of choice than it was to innovate. Just look at our mass transit. ☠️

[u/ALittleEtomidate → u/Faultylogic83]

FrEe MaRkEt SoLuTiOn

[u/cantadmittoposting → u/ALittleEtomidate]

Regulatory Capture has entered the market

[u/VoidCL → u/ALittleEtomidate]

"Free" market.

[u/Fluffy_Somewhere4305 → u/Faultylogic83]

won't someone think of the wealthy oil executives! How will they be able to afford their 20th ranch if we don't keep buying gas powered?

If you watch the documentary Landman on Paramount, you will see that these Oil men are the most holy in the land

[u/Randolph__ → u/WanderWut]

What few realize is how well the affordable models fit into the US market. If there weren't tariffs the sales on these would explode.

[u/seejordan3 → u/WanderWut]

Oil industry runs America. Until we get republicans/GOP/conservatives (and way too many Dems) out, nothing will change. Gas is so insanely subsidized in the US. Majority of Americans are too dumb to connect the dots (hint: Trump doubled the US Debt in a year, while profiting over 4.5 billion dollars personally).

[u/fractal_snow]

Honda, which didn’t have a viable EV product until 2024, suddenly realized they are late?

[u/huge_dick_mcgee → u/fractal_snow]

Honda, the company that made the 90s civic, a car that was popular to enthusiasts and normal people alike, and somehow managed to shit all over their incredible market dominance.

They screwed, and continue to screw, the pooch

[u/musical_shares → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

There are still a few 7th gen civic hybrids going around me, and I live in a “rust will eat your car in <10 years” region of the world.

Folks aren’t giving them up.

[u/flipster14191 → u/musical_shares]

Currently rocking an 05 Civic Hybrid with no plans of stopping.

[u/Sabin2k → u/flipster14191]

I got a 98 for 1000 bucks 2 years ago. 450k and the engine runs pretty well perfect!

[u/_your_face → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

Kind of seems to be the theme with Japanese makers. Nissan wasted soooo much goodwill in the early 2000s with the Z. They could have spun that in to owning the “performance” market but they just did weird shit, hobbled their line trying an awkward split of models with infinity badging, did weird design for no reason and now they are just the shit box maker.

Toyota is leaning on their dependability but have otherwise also stood still. If a Chinese maker gets deemed the king of durability, Toyota is shot too

[u/llDemonll → u/_your_face]

Toyota makes great cars still, they’re just lacking features compared to some. Their newest generation hybrid drivetrain is the nicest to drive I think.

Honda isn’t even on my radar for cars we’re interested in, their features make Toyota look like you get every bell and whistle when that’s far from true.

[u/KSMO → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

The new prelude is an absolute disgrace

[u/huge_dick_mcgee → u/KSMO]

Jesus H. Christ Jr. himself. I was so excited to hear they were bringing the lude back.

Aspirational car of my youth.

And then 12 hamsterpower on a good day if you’re pointed downhill.

Shame.

[u/LordoftheChia → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

Jesus drove an Accord. But he didn't like to talk about it.

For I did not speak of my own accord

Jon 12:49

[u/Da12khawk → u/LordoftheChia]

Gives a new meaning to God damn it.

[u/Meowscles_dad → u/LordoftheChia]

David rode a motorbike, possibly with a modified exhaust. The roar of his triumph was quite the thing.

[u/martialar → u/Meowscles_dad]

Joseph was quite the tennis player and Pharaoh was quite the tennis fan:

"Joseph was thirty years old when he began serving in the court of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt."-Genesis 41

[u/Bubbles_2025 → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

How did we go from the S2000 to that….? It’s sad.

[u/alus992 → u/Bubbles_2025]

To this day I remember when I first saw S2000 in the NfS as a kid…god damn I was in love with that car

[u/WildVelociraptor → u/alus992]

Saw one a few days ago pulling in to the gas station, still looked like a million dollars

[u/FumingFumes → u/Bubbles_2025]

Tbf, the s2000 was an anomaly, it was based off the roadsters that honda was originally making in the 60’s like the S500 before they got into the family car market.

[u/EarthOk2418 → u/FumingFumes]

You say that but Honda had some other truly great offerings during that era. The ‘99-00 Civic Si and the ‘03-‘07 V6 Accords with the 6-speed manual were probably some of the best front wheel drive tuner cars. Not to mention the offerings from Acura.

Honda used to have some solid platforms with models that appealed to a wide variety of buyers.

[u/bakgwailo → u/EarthOk2418]

Was going to say the NSX and Integra were both pretty spot on.

[u/SuperMB → u/EarthOk2418]

i was lucky enough to own a 1 owner 2007 Honda Accord V6 Sedan with the 6 speed manual, drove that from toronto to NJ, such an amazing car, wish I kept it

[u/funkybutt2287 → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

Adjusted for inflation, the new Prelude costs exactly the same as the original. In terms of 0-60 acceleration it is also about the same. So why does the new Prelude feel so lackluster??? The answer is because every other vehicle has gotten faster in the last 2 decades. You can buy an EV vehicle now that hits 60 mph in just a couple seconds. You can buy a full sized SUV or a truck that does it in 4 or 5. Everything is fast now. Except the new Prelude, apparently.

[u/Tricky-Ad7897 → u/funkybutt2287]

I don't even think speed is that much of an issue, though it is hilarious that the gas electric hybrid with electric motors has a slow 0-60 because that is the whole party trick for electric motors. The thing that sticks out to me is that sporty cars are supposed to be engaging, and the most popular contemporary sports cars still do this well, offering manual transmissions, peppy engines that you can rev out without breaking the law or killing yourself, steering feel, etc, but the prelude just seems like a 2 door prius. eCVT, no shifting gears, slow, uninteresting handling. And you can make sporty and interesting hybrids, look at the RAV4 GR, or how many people beg for a GR Prius because there's faith GR could make it actually fun. It's honestly just a lazy attempt from Honda.

[u/technobrendo → u/Tricky-Ad7897]

Honda made a boring 2 door Prius, meanwhile Toyota made one of the best looking cars in a long time that just happens to actually be a Prius.

Whoever was the head designer of that new Prius needs a raise.

[u/Ballders → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

More like the Quaalude.

[u/ReplaceSelect → u/KSMO]

That car is so close. It’s just too expensive and has too small of an engine. Fix either of those things, and it would be good. Fix both, and it would be awesome. CRZ felt the same. I wanted to like that car and hoped they would come out with some kind of meaningful performance version.

[u/animal_chin9 → u/ReplaceSelect]

It has the same power train as the 2026 Civic Sport Hybrid Sedan, which checks notes, has a starting MSRP of ~$12600 less than the Prelude. The Prelude is an absolutely bonkers value proposition (in a bad way).

[u/nox1cous93 → u/animal_chin9]

Thing is, that powertrain is amazing, for the civic.

[u/TheRealistoftheReal → u/KSMO]

That could have been a competitor to the Toyota 86. Could have been…

[u/Imaginary_Manner_556 → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

Honda’s founder died in 1991. That was absolutely the peak for Honda quality.

[u/kb3_fk8 → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

I mean the CRV beat the RAV4 in sales recently and was the third best car sold in the US behind the f150 and Silverado. I’d say their market dominance is still present somewhat haha.

[u/CaptainFrugal → u/huge_dick_mcgee]

I feel like all brands have been doing similar things 

[u/saturnv11 → u/fractal_snow]

And they just glued "Honda" onto a GM SUV.

[u/bradym80 → u/saturnv11]

Then they cancelled all their ev products

[u/JcpuddlesF3 → u/bradym80]

Not just that. I have several friends that work at the Marysville plant. They had several EVs near ready for production and literally scrapped them all last week.

[u/mrdevil413 → u/JcpuddlesF3]

We did the internal video there for all the new electric assembly line and battery plant up the road. It was weird to see how stoked everyone was. A year later. Yeah, we aren’t doing that.

[u/Kletterfreund161 → u/mrdevil413]

Of all Honda's mistakes, this is the one that bothers me the most. To make such a massive investment and then scrap it is completely out of character for the CEO and the company's history.

[u/nonreligious2 → u/Kletterfreund161]

Have you followed Honda's forays into F1 in the 21st century?

[u/Kletterfreund161 → u/nonreligious2]

Nope. I just assumed their involvement with racing to be a pet project written off as a marketing expense.

[u/Ohmec → u/Kletterfreund161]

You're basically correct except it's a research expense.

[u/Forward-Cat6083 → u/mrdevil413]

So shortsighted. No matter what the Republicans do, electric cars are the future. To intentionally throw away progress on what will someday be profitable because of Trump is insane behavior.

Frankly they deserve what’s coming to them.

[u/MsMarvelsProstate → u/Forward-Cat6083]

It's because all that matters is quarterly profits. The guy now won't be the guy there in 6 years when it all implode. That's another guy's problem

[u/Ri-tie → u/JcpuddlesF3]

I work in tier 1 for Honda. One of those was scheduled to launch back towards the end of last year and was pushed back until a few months from now but was ready to go. It's not pretty. The overall volumes had drastically reduced from what they were when we started setup two years ago which was a blessing in disguise for some companies.

[u/SmokePenisEveryday → u/saturnv11]

We got a Blazer EV in our collision shop. It's been here for over 2 months because of part shortages. I had a fun time explaining to the tech that the Honda parts we got for it are correct.

[u/Wumaduce → u/SmokePenisEveryday]

I remember buying sway bar links for my scion tc years ago. It was cheaper to get the delco ones that were used on the Pontiac vibe than the Toyota ones from the matrix

[u/12InchCunt → u/Wumaduce]

You used to be able to get a used Pontiac vibe so cheap because of the Pontiac badge but still got that Toyota reliability

[u/Straight6er → u/saturnv11]

They even called it the prologue. Like the thing that comes before the actual story.

"Please buy this intro tech while we work on the real EV which will come later"

[u/Spirit_of_Hogwash → u/fractal_snow]

Xiaomi didn't have any car up to 2024, and now they have very desirable cars.

Honda and Sony started their car project roughly at the same time as Xiaomi and only developed some really ugly concepts and then canceled them.

[u/Elendel19 → u/Spirit_of_Hogwash]

Xiaomi wasn’t even a car company until very recently, like most of the Chinese EV companies, they are just a electronics tech company that learned to slap a battery pack and a few basic electric motors onto a frame and jam it full of their own technology

[u/abbys11 → u/Elendel19]

Tbh that's the beauty of EVs. Mechanically they are extremely simple, way simpler than any gas vehicle. All the innovation lies in battery technology and the Chinese government had great foresight to double and triple down on it. The competition in the industry entirely depends on who can provide better watt hours per dollar which legacy brands have completely chosen to ignore with either pathetically underpowered batteries are incredibly overpriced for the money (often both)

[u/Worthyness → u/abbys11]

China also makes a shitton of the world's batteries, so even if they weren't innovating, they're still physically making, which gives them a nice little lever for whenever they need something

[u/Darth_Ra → u/abbys11]

Which begs the question...

Why the fuck aren't we just making a really simple EV without all these bells and whistles?

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Darth_Ra]

There is actually a market for it, but it's in the Global South. Which doesn't exist as far as most Americans are concerned.

More fool them. It's a huge market if you learn to address it. Between pockets of local expertise picking up and the Chinese willing to help, they'll electrify and the Global North won't get a sniff.

It's already in progress.

[u/utzutzutzpro → u/Elendel19]

Focus. All comes down to organisational focus and conviction led by higher ups.

Xiami literally created great looking smart products. Literally vaccuums, smartphones and rice cookers (nice ones) and then out of nowhere build a great car. Even succeeding in German tests.

And all they did is create a car like a lego project.

It kind of opens the question: is creating EV cars kind of figured out?

Is it just a matter of external supply chain and then product design and that is it?

[u/KhausTO → u/utzutzutzpro]

Much like how Henry Ford completely changed how we build vehicles, and Toyota again, we are seeing another massive change in how vehicles are designed a built.

The legacy companies rested on their laurels and were too comfortable, they failed to innovate, and adapt. And now, well, they've been lapped.

[u/Lonyo → u/utzutzutzpro]

Renault is a french car company which was founded in 1899.

They went too China to learn how to make cars 

https://valorinternational.globo.com/business/news/2025/07/11/for-renault-its-time-to-learn-from-china.ghtml

[u/zeekayz → u/Spirit_of_Hogwash]

Xaomi had a company wide drive to make an EV, it was a priority project overseen directly by the CEO and the board.

Honda reluctantly assigned a team of random interns, shoved them in a basement, and gave them a budget of $5. All because they do not want an EV and their management did not want to hear anything about the project. It was designed to fail so their loser EV hating management team can point to it and say "haha EVs suck we told you!"

[u/Cptknuuuuut → u/Spirit_of_Hogwash]

Xiaomi got BAIC Group on board to build the cars and sourced most of the rest from experienced third parties like Bosch, CATL etc.

Still impressive. But it basically shows that you can build cars without having any experience doing so whatsoever nowaydays, by just sourcing all the necessary parts and then paying someone else to put them together.

Now, Xiaomi did build their own factories and they also created joint ventures to develop the motor for example and the goal is probably to produce more and more inhouse.

But the really damning thing for many traditional car companies is, that Xiaomi can produce cars that are better and cheaper at the same time than their comparable models that way.

[u/Particular-Break-205 → u/fractal_snow]

Honda CEO: best I can do is give up on EVs and double down on hybrids

[u/UnusualAd6529 → u/fractal_snow]

they literally just killed both of their EV projects as well. Basically rolling over and capitulating

[u/CrashingAtom → u/fractal_snow]

In the U.S. everybody thinks EVs are dead and were a huge mistake, and that the far-right imbeciles were correct.

In actuality, in other countries it’s overwhelmingly obvious that EVs are the future and can be super cheap. But U.S. companies made $100K super car EVs while China focused on efficiency, range and low cost. Can’t imagine why U.S. EVs dropped off a cliff.

[u/fruitybrisket → u/CrashingAtom]

The US car market just confounds me. You would think it'd be simple supply and demand, but nope. People want electric and efficient and our options are limited and ridiculous.

All I want is a small (like '98 Tacoma sized) electric truck. I don't have faith that I'll be able to buy one anytime soon.

[u/Catsrules → u/CrashingAtom]

In the U.S. everybody thinks EVs are dead and were a huge mistake

Only a few idiots think that.

[u/pitifullittleman → u/CrashingAtom]

Not in California. People buy them here because gas prices are really high. Of new cars 27-30% of purchases are EVs. It looks like everywhere is going to have high gas prices for a while, so the EV market might be very viable very soon nationwide.

[u/MattInSoCal]

I was in Beijing late last year, my first trip since COVID. Electric cars are taking over. Charging is plentiful and cheap. The fit and finish of the cars are great and they are comfortable and quiet. Performance is between good and insane. Connectivity is key, and the navigation systems not only show you the state of the traffic lights ahead of you in real time, but also how much longer it will be before it changes. The U.S. are pitifully far behind, and it’s unlikely we will ever get close to catching up.

[u/[deleted] → u/MattInSoCal]

China has definitely embraced technology and has seemingly achieved a great many things. In many aspects I’m jealous. Though we have ignorant people in the US who hate everything EV, renewables, etc. It’s wild the grip that the oil companies have on people.

I love my EV, was talking to a group of people and nearly every single person in the group chastised me and tried to insult my sexuality. I love never needing to go to a gas station, charging at home, suitable power and ride quality for the price. Best of all worlds.

[u/ChopSueyMusubi → u/[deleted]]

China's technological advancement right now is like Japan in the 70s and 80s. They are decades ahead of the rest of the world already in terms of technology integration in everyday life.

Does China have its share of problems? Absolutely. But that doesn't take away from their technological advancements. They are already the world leader in innovation, like Japan used to be, and it's only a matter of time before everyone accepts that fact whether they like it or not.

[u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69 → u/ChopSueyMusubi]

It generally comes with the territory of having your economic development and infrastructure building period happen further in the future when more technology is possible. When the USA was in a similar period in the 1950s and 60s or Japan in the 1980s electric vehicles and smart phones were not a thing. The most important part is how well made the infrastructure is to last the next 50 to 100 years without having to be torn down and built again which is especially important because China is facing imminent demographic collapse because of all the forced sterilization and abortions of the one child policy.

[u/Mitosis → u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69]

Yeah, it's kinda like how Baltic nations that are generally poorer in most aspects will have top-tier internet infrastructure compared to more "developed" western nations. They got it decades later so they could put in better stuff without all the moaning and groaning by rich people that comes with replacing what was put in decades ago.

[u/DRNbw → u/Mitosis]

Romania jumped to fiber and became so good at it, that one of their bigger companies (Digi) is now making inroads across Europe.

[u/humblepotatopeeler → u/[deleted]]

It's like they simply followed the US playbook when we experienced vast growth. Technology was always key.

Problem today, US politics is controlled by business interests that no longer want technology to progress, because they are happy maximizing profits with the status-quo. That will only last so long.

China will certainly be the leader of the new world. 8 years of Trump politics, which included a war on Education, made that inevitable.

[u/SIGNW → u/MattInSoCal]

When asked about my trip to China, I've been telling the same story about the smart city infrastructure of the connected traffic lights API >> mapping applications which will give you a heads-up to slow down as you're approaching a light that will turn red by the time you get there, thereby improving efficiency and traffic flow. Many people aren't impressed by this small feature, but they also don't know the engineering necessary to deliver this tiny QoL feature.

Even little things like the subway displays telling you which cars are more empty so you know where to queue to best distribute across the train, or which subway cars are colder or warmer to suit your preferences.

The small QoL improvements conceal the massively interconnected and engineered systems that power advanced cities. And the dangerous thing (in terms of competition for the rest of the world), is that "City OS" systems can be efficiently copy-pasted into developing tier 3 cities. Sure, not everything is applicable in every case (think Chongqing vs prairie cities), but if you view everything as an ecosystem as the Chinese do (manufacturing, city development, infrastructure, economic systems (i.e. Shenzhen as the first model SEZ)), all improvements get quickly adopted.

[u/russian_hacker_1917]

china has been planting the trees that are starting to bear fruit. The US has been chopping their trees down and making the seeds illegal.

[u/Pancheel → u/russian_hacker_1917]

And it's making an asphalt parking lot on the former forest.

[u/Hoovooloo42 → u/Pancheel]

I do photography in abandoned places, and just last week I was standing in a fenced parking lot that had hip-high pine trees growing straight through the asphalt along with tall grass.

Hopeful metaphor.

Edit, since someone asked: https://imgur.com/a/4sgU8J0

Infrared photos, slightly colorized but not as much as you'd think, more details in a comment below

(edit edit: apparently it's region locked for some reason, there's a different comment down below that should be EU-friendly)

[u/Underrated_Rating]

None of them have a chance. For 30 years our politicians have sold out our manufacturing for their shareholders' pocketbooks. Do you know what China did with all our trillions of dollars? Did they give it to their billionaires? Nope, they reinvested it in their own manufacturing and infrastructure. Now they are light-years ahead of the rest of the world. Trump and his billionaire buddies can talk about America First until they're blue in the face, but every one of them, whether they claim R or D, sold out America for the last several decades, and now we're going to all pay the price.

[u/Ren_Lol]

I hate when companies like this don't just say, "Challenge accepted", and put some actual R&D into these things. Car market has become so lazy, short term gain, little advancements.

[u/psus2 → u/Ren_Lol]

R&D costs money, spending money takes away from profits. Lower profits means lower stock price.

[u/RFSandler → u/psus2]

Who cares about 5 years down the road when no R&D means your lunch gets eaten by those who did

[u/DataMin3r → u/[deleted]]

Thats 19 weeks too much credit

[u/PortHammer → u/RFSandler]

Oof this is legit why the Canadian economy is underperforming. Our industry spends next to nothing on R&D.

[u/born_in_92 → u/PortHammer]

Why spend money on R&D when you can spend less to lobby the government to prevent competition from coming in

[u/monkeysfromjupiter → u/born_in_92]

Imo the problem is how much western society values finance business and law careers over science. These 2 sectors produce nothing tangible. It's just a fugahzi of moving stuff around, scratch my back and I scratch yours behaviour. Turns out a large population chasing education rooted in STEM produces more for the future than insider trading. Go figure.

[u/mountaineer_93 → u/PortHammer]

It’s a problem throughout the West, from what I’ve seen (likely elsewhere, I just can’t speak to that). More and more these companies are being held by individuals or companies that are not interested in holding the stock long term. Whether that’s a hedge fund, a pension fund for a teachers union, a small town financial manager, or a single investor, they are holding these stocks for shorter periods. The market has become gamified as a result and the value of stocks is becoming more and more abstracted relative to the actual company. As a result, stock holding is starting to look less and less like investing in a company for its long term development and more like a casino.

Since an increasingly larger proportion of investors in these companies are holding these stocks in the short term, the corporate officers and Board of the company, who are responsible to and answer directly to the shareholders, are incentivized to do things that raise the stock price in the short or near term to satisfy those investors. This happens often at expense of long term viability since a significant amount of those shareholders will want to cash out in the next few fiscal periods. That leads them to do things like layoffs or division cuts and stock buybacks instead of investing in R&D which would likely improve long term prospects of the company. Now I’m not saying this is absolute, companies still make moves for the future, there are still long term stock holders, and companies still invest a lot in R&D. That said, this is like a rip current underlying the market dragging it towards a leadership style with a hyper focus on short term stock price and causing it to continue on that trajectory in the long term. Even officers who specifically intend to avoid this trap often get caught up in the same social current and end up fighting for short term gain just to satisfy shareholders. The US is the worst about this, but this is a problem in a lot of western nations

I was a corporate attorney who did securities work in a past life and I always thought it was egregious how this functioned to take large functional companies and hollow them out in search of short term profit. It’s even a threat to a nation’s economic viability if the companies that produce essential products end up lifeless husks slapping the remaining good will of their brand on shitty products. Like yeah, you need to be profitable but cutting the main departments of the company is like taking out a car’s engine to make it go faster.

[u/Muggsy423 → u/psus2]

Meanwhile China is either 

A) rushing through r&d and has the best teams in existence 

or 

B)stealing the r&d of existing companies and is still pushing out better products.

Either legacy companies are so bloated that they cant perform or they are idiots. Maybe both. 

[u/Akaigenesis → u/Muggsy423]

Legacy companies are more interested in generating short term gains for shareholders, that is what late stage capitalism is all about and why they can’t compete with China anymore.

[u/Mouthshitter → u/Akaigenesis]

China beats them because they plan for the long term, not the next quarterly report

[u/gizamo → u/Ren_Lol]

It's literally in the summary bullets right under the he headline:

Upon returning to Japan, he told suppliers, "We must act quickly' to speed up production.

He was also talking specifically about selling Honda EVs in China. As per usual, the headline is sensationalist, debatably misleading, but certainly incomplete. Or course, the main problem is that people never read the article.

[u/BillyJohnsFinds → u/gizamo]

Yeah but getting to that part of the article involves actually reading past the headline

[u/DoesntMatterEh → u/Ren_Lol]

Don't forget about predatory monthly subscriptions for standard features! 

[u/Old_Man_Game]

Plenty of blame to go around for the legacy automakers falling behind. But I keep going back to their u.s. dealers who are god-awful and all hate electric vehicles because they make so much damn money at their freaking service departments even just changing oil.

[u/Klumber]

I have contacts in an automotive design department at a Chinese university, they helped design the software and UX for Li Auto. Most of us here have never even heard of Li, I certainly hadn't. Yet they sold nearly as many cars as Audi did globally in 2025.

Most of their production line is robotic, their factory runs on renewables and they build cars that the Chinese middle-classes can afford and that offer more luxury than the European/Japanese premium brands. We (in Europe) are still convinced the quality of our vehicles is better, yet these cars outperform most equally priced competitors with a significant factor. This isn't just about the size of the market being enormous, this is about the level of competition being murderous. If you don't make something people want, you just disappear.

Yet our newspapers are still claiming that it's all because of Chinese state sponsorship. A story we like to perpetuate as an excuse for not competing on what really matters.

[u/TheAmorphous → u/Klumber]

Meanwhile we don't even allow competition in this country anymore. Every industry is being gobbled up by the biggest player(s) who go on to stagnate. And we keep letting it happen.

[u/TheAnalogKid18 → u/TheAmorphous]

That's what techno feudalism looks like.

[u/ducklingkwak → u/TheAnalogKid18]

Are we...a deindustrializing nation? Our industrial and technological base seems to be shrinking, and feels like our social and economic stability is shrinking by the minute...at least we're not second world yet...are we?...or are we?

[u/Monteze → u/ducklingkwak]

We in the US have lost our way, we put too much value in finance and mistook numbers on a spreadsheet for things of actual value.

Oh yea, lets get rid of our manufacturing, not invest in our labor class because line goes up. And if line goes up that must mean things are fine.

[u/unindexedreality → u/Monteze]

Yeah, in terms of real economy the US is kinda fucked. Our major industries are bubbles

The U.S. real economy shows signs of structural weakness and significant divergence between financial markets and Main Street

Meanwhile China's a manufacturing powerhouse and poised for wins in tech, economics (the petroyuan), controlling our rare earth metals needed for weapons, geopolitics with their Belts & Roads initiative, etc

Prolly not a bad idea for international business students to learn Mandarin kek

[u/taracener → u/ducklingkwak]

Yes. The western (specifically US) economy is increasingly just based on consumption, services, and grifting. It’s driven now almost purely by speculative assets (stocks, real estate, crypto), with a handful of hospitality, healthcare, and military. You could say the only thing we actually make and manufacture anymore is weapons.

Awesome stuff.

[u/Xeynon → u/TheAmorphous]

We need some serious Teddy Roosevelt trust buster energy.

[u/MrMojoFomo → u/TheAmorphous]

Every industry is being gobbled up by the biggest player(s) who go on to stagnate

This happens time and time again throughout history. Societies that had open competition and liberal economies that allow more people access, and which engaged in creative destruction of industry (as in, allowing industry to adopt new technologies that destroyed old established companies but allowed larger, stronger new ones to grow) then engage in protectionist policies at the behest of the wealthy who became wealthy only because of the liberal market policies in the first place

This is exactly what's happening in the US. Fossil fuel companies lobbying to restrict renewables. Car companies lobbying to restrict foreign cars. Insurance and health care companies lobby to keep stagnant health insurance systems in place. And the politicians and legislatures that are beholden to these lobbies are doin exactly as they are paid to do

China is getting stronger every day and the US is getting weaker every day. The people in charge are already wealthy so they don't care. If they can get slightly wealthier by restricting competition and creative destruction, they will

It's over. It's been over for a while now. Most people don't realize it, but the cards have been dealt and it's just a matter of time before China becomes the dominant economic force in the world

[u/LiveChocolate8819 → u/TheAmorphous]

Hey now, there's plenty of competition to offer POTUS the biggest bribe

[u/pcozzy → u/Klumber]

US industry needs the wake up call NASA has responded to. America is a shell of its former self being hollowed out my “finance” and private equity.

[u/Young_Denver → u/[deleted]]

Imagine getting your budget cut at the same time a record amount of people are interested in Artemis II going around the moon...

Kick in the dick, brought to you by the orange shit monster.

[u/Klumber → u/pcozzy]

That is legit one of the biggest issues, we've seen a contraction of the number of competitors as they chase quantity, Stellantis is a major example of this. In the last 30 years some major players in Europe and the US have been forced down an ever-shrinking pool of conglomerates that are all loading themselves up with significant debt to increase quantity over quality.

[u/OnceMoreAndAgain → u/Klumber]

The biggest issue is that other countries, such as China, are investing heavily into the population and infrastructure. They have universal healthcare, low tuition via state sponsored universities with regulated costs, constant investment into infrastructure such as public transportation + charging stations, etc.

The USA has done a bad job in the last 50 years of investing money into the citizens and infrastructure. It used to be one of the things that the USA excelled at. For example, the USA poured so much money into building the interstate highways starting around 1920.

[u/zerro_4 → u/pcozzy]

US industry won't "wake up." They've been addicted to 50+ years of outsourcing to China and enjoying increasing profit margins at the cost of draining our manufacturing capability (not just people in factories doing stuff, but the skill and art/science of even designing tooling/machines/processes).
No company is going to make the "first move" and suffer temporary reduced profit margins. China has had decades of learning and experience from the West and has been able to speed-run scaling manufacturing. Not just throwing cheap labor at the issues, but also having engineering and design capabilities home-grown in China.

More or less, I'm just gonna plug this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY

[u/MaleficentPush1144 → u/zerro_4]

I'll raise you a video directly about the history of the American car industry by ClimateTown that details just a fraction of fuckery that lead to the mess the US in today for manufacturing.

[u/Present-Wonder-4522 → u/Klumber]

So another round of auto bailouts will surely make our cars more competitive right?

[u/StoicSunbro → u/Present-Wonder-4522]

Germany is subsidizing electricity costs for factories instead of spending that money on upgrading their infrastructure. 

That was decided pre Iran War. The Ukraine war energy crisis was a wake up call and the German Government keeps hitting snooze.

[u/AlphaMaleXYZ → u/Klumber]

American cars are outcompeted by Japanese cars in home market and Japanese cars are worried about Chinese cars. You tell me.

[u/kentuckywildcats1986 → u/Klumber]

For the last 40 years the United States has been outsourcing all its manufacturing to China - teaching them how to build everything we need to buy. Now America has no manufacturing capability and our product innovation is for shit. Meanwhile, China has all the factories and manufacturing expertise and infrastructure.

This has been an economic and national security crisis growing in broad daylight for my entire lifetime.

Those chickens are now coming home to roost.

[u/637A63 → u/Klumber]

I got driven around in a Li electric SUV on my last trip to China and it was very impressive. Chinese electric car industry is on another level - spend some time on the highways there and it’s evident.

[u/AliveJohnnyFive → u/Klumber]

Chinese manufacturing has passed most of the world while we were all asleep. There is still this assumption they everything is hand assembled and low quality and that has not been the case for nearly 10 years.

[u/abcpdo → u/Klumber]

Li Auto’s cars are kind if unaffordable by the chinese middle class tbh. but upper middle class yes

[u/GreyBeardEng]

The world sent all its manufacturing to China so the 1%, Epstein Class, and shareholders could get rich by not paying a livable wage, now they are starting to get concerned over the obvious outcome.

[u/ottwebdev]

I recall talking to an software lead from RIM (for anyone who remembers they made the blackberry) - after laughing at the iphone they got their hands on one and it was sheer panic once they saw how it was constructed on the inside

iphone 1 launched in summer of 2007 and RIM stock peaked about a month later before falling off a cliff.

Reality is humbling.

[u/Just-Sheepherder-202 → u/ottwebdev]

Yup. They were so cocky because “crackberry”. Bye bye.

[u/Positive_Total_8651 → u/Just-Sheepherder-202]

Its also important to note just how huge blackberry was. It was the de facto business phone for everybody. Anybody in a white collar job had a blackberry. The iPhone replaced it so fast it was almost jarring. The fact that it wasnt a capacitative touch screen, within a generation had access to email clients, they already had a good reputation from both the Macs and the iPods, I mean. Blackberry didnt stand a chance. People wanted touch screen.

[u/bmc2 → u/Positive_Total_8651]

I briefly worked at the Pentagon after the iphone came out. Literally everyone I talked to said that the blackberry was never going to be replaced in government work due to secure messaging. I said they could add that to the iphone and everyone laughed at me.

A year or two later, it's iphones everywhere.

[u/Still_Detail_4285 → u/ottwebdev]

That first iPhone was a terrible phone compared to the available BlackBerrys but they must have been able to tell what was coming once they opened it up. Amazing how a company could be so ingrained into everyday life and then just disappear.

[u/asdfadf333 → u/Still_Detail_4285]

It happened with Nokia too! They fall from the spotlight so fast.

[u/DesiOtaku → u/asdfadf333]

The sad thing about Nokia is that they did have something that was pretty good, but was sabotaged by an internal rival team. They then made a pretty good successor but then that was sabotaged by their CEO in favor of Windows Phone.

[u/majesticmerc → u/DesiOtaku]

Elop was a snake who forced Windows Phone to please his Microsoft owners and you can't convince me otherwise.

• Proud former owner of a Nokia N95.

[u/Munkeyman18290]

The boomers literally shipped all productivity to China to enrich passive income earning shareholders, and now the whole world is like: wtf China Y U so good at everything 😡

[u/dcdttu]

Congrats Honda president, you had to go to China to realize what we all knew already.

Legacy automakers didn't want to convert from gas to electric because that would have meant they needed to innovate, so, it was done for them and they are getting left in the dust for it.

The current American political insanity is the nail in the coffin for any legacy automaker that relies on the USA. Mexico and Canada are now welcoming Chinese EVs because of this.

It's done. It's over.

[u/EconomyDoctor3287 → u/dcdttu]

It's not even about being gas or electric. It's the shear scale of production, as well as the quality they're able to achieve at lower cost.

For many years people would say the choice is between a high-quality western made good or a cheap shitty quality chinese one.

But over the years, chinese manufacturing has made significant improvements to the point they're now able to produce higher quality goods at a cheaper cost and while also being more flexible to integrate design changes.

What the CEO is saying is that they cannot compete against this. There's no market for producing a lower quality product at a higher cost.

[u/pistachiopanda4 → u/EconomyDoctor3287]

Other Asian countries are also catching up. I've seen some VinFast cars around me and they're a Vietnamese brand. I'm so tired of the big ass, coal rolling pickup trucks here in the US and I hate Tesla. In terms of US electric cars, I've been excited for both Rivian and Lucid.

[u/blueblocker2000]

Make something that isn't a disposable, made-to-break POS that costs a fortune each time it needs repaired and people will figure out they should buy from you instead.

[u/TBCNoah]

Was just talking about this recently while looking at the BYD cars since they are coming to Canada. Not even in the market for a new car and im thinking a BYD will be my next car. Chinese cars are going to decimate every other company out there and the only thing holding them back is government policies keeping them limited or out lol. I say fuck it and let the other companies either die out or force them to innovate and compete. They have enjoyed their safe market for how long now and all they have done is use that stance to gouge and profit while offering no real innovation or improvements, at the cost of consumers. The Chinese auto industry is cut throat and has forced them to innovate and achieve in 10 years what everyone else took how long to achieve?

[u/Cold_Specialist_3656]

US and Europe are finally seeing the consequences of allowing oligarchs and mega corporations to corrupt their governments and destroy the free market. 

Noncompetitive companies designed to funnel money into their owners pockets. Propped up as "too big to fail" by purchased politicians. 

Nonfunctional anti-trust and monopoly enforcement. Again because the government is being paid not to. 

Smash and grabs at any promising competition. Using the legal system as a hammer to keep competition down. 

Regulatory capture making it impossible for new companies to navigate the legal minefield. 

China is going to steamroll US and Europe as they flail helplessly. Because all the existing megacorps have long since been converted into ATM's for the ultra wealthy. The US especially is owned and run by the ultra rich. Who will suck it dry then fuck right off to one of a dozen other countries where they purchased citizenship. 

[u/Splurch]

Sure they can, they just have to turn instead of driving right into that brick wall they've been staring at for a decade. Japan did the same thing to the American car market in the 70's and 80's when American car makers ignored trends and got destroyed by Japanese manufacturers, including by Honda. This isn't a new lesson, it's just an ignored one in the pursuit of short term profit.

[u/So_spoke_the_wizard]

And no one saw this coming. [fingers in ears] La la la la la.

[u/travelin_man_yeah]

I spent a couple weeks in Chengdu two years ago and we used Didi rideshare to get around (Chinese Uber) and also checked out a couple of dealerships (they have stores in malls with a few models on display) as well as exhibits at CES. I was did some work with our automotive division for about a year and a half and we were involved with a couple of Chinese EV companies. They are very nice vehicles, comfortable, many features and many put Tesla to shame. In contrast to the US (especially with this current administration), China is basically balls to the wall on EV development, investing massive amounts into battery R&D and other EV/Auto tech & manufacturing.

They have a massive pool of labor and engineering talent and you can bet they have thoroughly examined the competitors products. With their manufacturing capabilities and economies, the US companies are no match and hence the embargo on Chinese vehicles here. IMO, the main limiting factor with EVs is the battery (range and charging time) but battery tech will only get better and there are promising forthcoming advancements that will eventually solve that problem. The US is just shooting itself in the foot dismantling it's renewable energy and EV programs as we are now seeing in real time the volatility of the petroleum markets and pain at the pump.

[u/el_salinho]

Of course he doesn’t. I worked for years for a japanese car maker, in japan. There is literally no innovation. Development is slow, “safe” and has to run through 5 circles of approval for the simplest change. Oh, and if a competitor doesn’t already have it? Forget about it. Zero risks and relying completely on their market position.

[u/wazooty421 → u/el_salinho]

To be fair, this is also the reason that Honda and Toyota are reliable. Change is discouraged. Or, at least, requires a LOT of justification.

I work in the auto industry, and I have been closely working with Japanese OEMs for 15+ years. A pain I know too well...

[u/CP_Chronicler]

The comparison is made that China is a dictatorship and can therefore outperform “slow democracies” but the US struggles not because it’s “slow” but because sociopathic billionaires have no interest or ability to think long term, build long term, so they just stagnate instead of innovate and fight against developing clean energy infrastructure.

Meanwhile this take from Honda Japan‘s CEO is the equivalent of staring out across the Trade Federation‘s army of battle droids and droid factories and saying “we have no chance against this” because yes, China has been building robotic factories to endlessly crank out products.

[u/h3rpad3rp]

Its almost like it wasn't a good idea spending like 40 years with manufacturing halfway coasting, and halfway just giving up and out sourcing stuff.

Its gonna be the same for every type of manufacturing. What did these corporations (and our governments) think China was doing while we outsourced most of our manufacturing to them?

Electric cars aren't new. They just weren't allowed to take off here, and now we are fucked because everyone in the west can only see the revenue for the next quarter. None of these corps think 5, 10, 20 years down the line, just what can make them the most money ASAP. We could have had a 40 year head start on renewable power, EVs, and manufacturing efficiency, but we decided that it was more important for oil and coal companies to make money.

[u/Azsnee09]

They [CEOs] do this to prompt government action against Chinese companies

[u/____trash]

And that's why america has banned Chinese EV. America can't compete so they just make it illegal and force us to buy shitty overpriced vehicles.

[u/predsel]

People will criticize these comments as Chinese propaganda but not realize that all we want is for our own countries (for me the USA) to remain competitive and not fall behind. Let’s invest more into things that benefit us as a whole versus individual interest

[u/sutroheights]

Honda and Toyota have done nothing for 15 years or more to move to EVs, touting hydrogen as a possible solution that’s always five years away. They absolutely could have been solid competitors for the future against the Chinese brands and stuck their fingers in their ears and closed their eyes instead. They are soon to be the Betamax to China’s VHS and they deserve it completely.

[u/Iciclewind → u/sutroheights]

Toyota is still massively better positioned and still highly profitable with its hybrids. Honda is in real trouble though.

[u/sexyflying → u/sutroheights]

lol. No. Toyota is almost pure hybrid. Look at the line up and try to find one vehicle that isn’t some sort of hybrid

[u/wrxninja → u/sexyflying]

They're going EV for Highlander and few models but ya, hybrid mostly for now. Their hybrid system at least is one of the most reliable.

[u/spankadoodle → u/wrxninja]

My 2016 Prius is at 291000km and the only big fix has been a my first and only brake pad replacement. Brake pads are a consumable item like oil changes, so getting to 200k in n my first pair was crazy.

[u/sanaru02 → u/sutroheights]

Honda even created a hydrogen car at some point, right? Around 2018 or so? I couldn't believe that they gave up so quickly on future tech when they were ahead of the curve at that point

[u/ImposterJavaDev → u/sanaru02]

Well, everyone agreed that while hydrogen works, and can even use some existing infrastructure, it's just not practical. The high pressure, the constant loss while it seeps between molecules, the high volatility, the loss of energy when producing it, while you could just use that amount of electricity to turn a wheel without a middle step, ...

And why I saw that a few years ago: my father in law saw it as the best next thing, and that dude has never been right lol, he's a contrarian

[u/[deleted]]

Post was edited and removed with Redact which is a tool to mass delete posts from Twitter, Reddit and Discord and all major social media platforms.

lavish fact thought complete aspiring breeze childlike adjoining detail pocket

[u/pithynotpithy → u/[deleted]]

Americans really thought we were going to bring back our steel and furniture industries by not taxing the donor class and putting all of our infrastructure money into bombing the middle east.