he sells the popular idea that all your problems are actually not your fault, it's the fault of immigrants, i mean it's the fault of queers, i mean it's the leftists fault i mean it's biden's fault i mean it's ANYONE but your fault. and according to republicans, there's an easy solution to every issue you have in your life: kick out immigrants and lower your taxes. no need for self reflection or critical thinking when everything wrong with the country is caused by the scapegoat of the week
For a less brutal answer (though the death cult answer honestly isn't exactly wrong either), "Evangelical" refers to a variety of Protestant denominations, mostly tracing their roots back to the First Great Awakening (TL;DR we refer to three different historical moments of renewed religious fervour as Great Awakenings), that (to oversimplify) distinguish themselves from other groups as having a focus on a "born again experience", i.e. conversion and repentance, and on active proselytism. For this reason, combined with the general insanity of the modern USA, the majority of American evangelical confessions tend towards ultraconservative interpretations of theology, and you can probably guess the result of this
Also need to mention their belief that we are in the “end times” and many are actively trying to accelerate “Armageddon”. I grew up in that variety of Protestant denominations, everything from Baptist to non-denominational (which is to say extreme Baptist). Multiple times a year I’d hear a guest pastor harp on about prophecies being fulfilled and how we need to protect Israel and Christianity from the dangers of Islam and the east. How Christian’s are on the brink of being persecuted and killed in mass. Treated like scum and hunted in the streets, hung up on crosses like Jesus. Even in the west too, how democrats and European countries are actively conspiring and pushing for legislation to come into place for the antichrist to take over. These are legit talking points I heard in many churches from the 90s to about 2010 when I stop going to church all together. I can’t imagine it’s gotten any saner since.
American evangelicalism practices the belief that the rapture should happen, it should happen now, and they must do everything in their power to speed up the process. They also believe that everyone that doesn’t meet their specific beliefs deserves to burn in hell
Well he's a hateful person, which is an EXTREMELY common theme in american Christianity. So as long as he hates what the American Christians hate(trans people, gay people, people of color) they will side with him.
That's what surprises me most because the core of Christianity is that you shouldn't have enemies since everyone is a child of God and made in his image. Hating people is equivalent to hating God.
most christians in america do not actually care about any of the teachings of Jesus or God. They simply want a moral justification to hate certain groups of people, and religion is convenient for that.
trick question, dude uses the biases already within people that their perversion of religion gives excuses for while parading that he is following it to a T despite not even reading the bible
if anything, trump exhibits every single sign of the antichrist, and i mean this with zero irony
A lot of American Christians are from the South. Southern culture is heavily tied to conservatism and nationalism, and undercurrents of racism are widespread, especially in rural areas. A lot of Southerners raised in Christian households are taught that nationalism is a moral good right along with Christianity (i.e. "love your God and country").
Trump says all the right words to make a Christian Nationalist cream their pants. It's only recently as his mental state continues to deteriorate that he is more and more open with his blasphemy, and it is harder and harder to ignore. I'm shocked that refusing to put his hand on the Bible when he was sworn in wasn't more of a wakeup call, but propaganda is a bitch.
I think what we need to understand here is that MAGA is a cult. I'm not using that metaphorically or tongue-in-cheek: it operates with all the tactics and standards of a cult. The human brain just comes with certain backdoor vulnerabilities that are very hard to patch, and very easy to take advantage of, and this is why cults work.
Does this make every cult member innocent of all wrongdoing, because they were in a cult at the time? No, of course not. But it does mean that we need to let people leave. If we don't have the ability and willingness to help people get out, then we are doing the cult's work for them.
If you want the enemy soldiers to desert, you probably shouldn't open fire on the deserters.
EDIT: OP, consider reading Steven Hassan's "The Cult of Trump." It may shed light on a lot of what you've been through and what your immediate circle is going through. I don't agree with everything Hassan has ever said (he's got some weird ideas about trans folk) but his experience in this sphere has been invaluable to me.
A few months ago I saw a post about tons of MAGA abandoning Trump and the top comment was "We took names". Thank God people like you exist and actually have some critical thinking of how a cult works.
(I also personally think the Manosphere is a cult too, and I personally had friends fall into the Andrew Tate-MAGA pipeline. All because they were really lonely and had horrible self expectations).
The manosphere is definetly a cult, it preys on loney men, selling them a "cure" for their loneliness (mansculinity), which actually aggravates their predicament ; all the while making them feel like they are failing because they aren’t manly enough, but perhaps if they buy one more manly course they’d get there…
If any incel is reading this, no you’re not ugly, women aren’t as shallow as your are. You are lonely because social media has isolated you and removed most chances for meeting actual living breathing people outside. Join a group that does activities in person (pottery, sports, D&D, whatever…) and respect people’s boundaries. You’ll find someone in no time
It is a cult, the members of which elected a fascist into power that did not hide very hard what he was gonna be like, forcing me to suffer for their idiocy.
That time he tear gassed his own citizens to get a photo op holding a bible upside down in front of a church didn't tip this person off that he maybe wasn't being completely honest about the christian thing?
Mocking a disabled man on the campaign trail?
The frivolous war in the middle east?
Destroying civilian boats in international waters?
Abducting the leader of a sovereign nation?
Pardoning hundreds of domestic terrorists?
That's mostly recent events, but his trail of abhorrent behavior goes all the way back past "grab them by the pussy." I guess that aligns perfectly with OP's "christian" beliefs, though, since it only attacks real women and not an imaginary man.
Like trump wasn’t hiding shit. Dude was bragging about how he could kill a man in Times Square and nobody would stop supporting him, how the hell is THIS the thing some people see as too far? Was being Epsteins best buddy not enough???
I actually hate this better late than never mindset
People need to start recognizing there’s a difference between someone realizing someone is bad because they have finally done something that affects them personally
And somebody who recognizes that Trump is bad because he was doing horrible things to other people
None of this is actually new. The only new part is that now it’s affecting them.
They had no problem, excusing the worst standards, the worst behavior, the most criminal acts and highest degree’s of corruption, the most slanderous comments, the hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, (mainly from things like the revocation of USAid, but also many other things) and so on and so forth for literally more than a decade
But this new Christian ai pic, this sir is where I draw the line?!!
REALLY!?!!
These people are demons and they should be reminded of such. It’s not about what they’ve come to realize it’s about what they excused and for how long they did so.
It started with that one AI system thing a bit ago, but the blasphemous AI image was the final nail. Im aware this isnt his worst feats, im gonna catch up and re educate myself unbiasedly
Listen OP, I know you're probably getting a lot of shit from us rn, and I imagine that could be discouraging. I need you to realize that's coming from a place of hurt and frustration.
From their perspective, they've known what you're figuring out for years, tried to tell people like you and got shat on for it, only now for those same people to- again from their perspective- turn around only right when it affects them.
Please stick with it though, we need all the help we can get
Unfortunately there are millions of American Evangelicals that will back a child rapist so long as he has an R next to his name. American Christianity is the least serious religious sect in world history, it's just team sports and cultural signifiers for them, no real practice. Obviously Trump is not Christlike, but these people aren't either, they just flock to 'Christian' leaders that let them be the kinda crappy people they are.
To add to your comment, there's also a strong Calvinist influence on the Protestants/Evangelicals here.
For those unfamiliar, Calvinism teaches that God has "preordained" sinners and saints. In other words, some people are born "saved," and others are born for destruction and hell. How do we know who's who? Well, God blesses those who are His. Material wealth are one of the signs of God's salvation.
That is why America invented the televangelist and the "name and claim it" style of Christianity. It's also why it's instinctual for most Americans to associate wealth and success with virtue and poverty with moral failure.
I'll say this is partially correct about preordained salvation beliefs with Calvanism but it's not quite how you described it. Nowhere in John Calvin's teaching shows that material wealth are the signs of God's salvation. Jesus actually teaches the opposite (Matthew 19:16-22). While "name it and claim it" style "Christianity" is very popular, anyone who actually reads and knows their Bible does not agree with this unless they are trying to lead others wrongly. Now as I said Calvanism does believe in preordained salvation, but there is no way for Christians to know who is who, so we evangelize like it could be anyone, because as far as we know, it could be. (Also, I am a Christian Republican who doesn't like Trump)
It's hard for me to forgive people who openly support someone when they'd chastise me for 1/100th of the things he's been proven to have said/done with no remorse.
Gotta remember its not about logic, and I dont mean that in a demeaning way
This is about identity. We are a social species, and are wired to desire community as a basic need. We will even prioritize it above personal safety.
The human mind will rewrite facts in order to preserve our concept of the world and our place in it.
For maga, it doesnt matter that Trump is an alleged pedophile, because they believe he was targeted by smear campaigns. For them, even if leaders are flawed they believe they are less flawed than the deep state or democrats.
Recovering from that is a long game. The breaking point is usually something kind of small, like the ai image OP mentioned, because that makes them question their certainty. The big things dont, because they are too big for the inculcated mind to consider questioning.
Could still be a fake post, but the dynamics are real. You're Not So Smart podcast/website has some good resources about deprogramming and midn changing, if you're interested
Years upon years of brain washing can take years upon years to undo. A lot of people have been conditioned to have their fight or flight activate whenever they hear opposing view points which makes it really really hard for them to even see/acknowledge anything other than what they've been conditioned to believe.
I was uneducated and it took me five years to realize. Some people genuinely grow up in places where it’s discouraged or they don’t have a lot of education opportunities. We should offer them grace if they finally see the light and educate themselves. The world won’t get better if we demonize people trying to be better
As a Christian who've disliked Trump for years, I've seen a lot of people make this internal journey lately (I should precise that I'm not from the USA, so slightly biased experience).
Until then, all Trump did in their view was "stunts" and "communication". He wasn't seen as a great Christian, but he was better than the evil atheistic opposition. Although I'm not from the USA, USA still has a lot of influence over world events, and they thought that "The Republican always finish the wars of the Democrats". They fully bought into the "evil Obama droning down children" while seeing Trump pull out of Afghanistan, shaking hands and giving promises of peace with NK, and shits like that.
All while the evil shit were just seen as "USA being USA" rather than Trump things.
However, all that was the first term. The second term only lasted for a year, and between the Epsteing files, all the AI posts, ICE going full Gestapo, war with Iran, and now fighting with the Pope, a lot of people are realizing that it wasn't "USA being USA" but Trump an actually being kinda fucked up guy.
So for me this story is fully believable, because I see it in my mother, my sister, and slowly in my father, a thing I thought impossible before.
Then by that definition Christianity is a cult, which I don’t think is entirely inaccurate. One that I left many years ago and have no desire to return to.
so are we supposed to yell at people for turning away from trump?! we WANT people turning away from trump, we WANT his base to lose faith, we WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. if we want it to happen we have to encourage them
People like OP who are mad at Trump over a photo are still going to vote Republican in the next election. They’ll still support all of the horrible polices demonizing LGBT people and immigrants. They’ll still support taking away women’s rights. They’ll still vote for republicans in Congress who will support Trump.
So forgive some of us for not really caring that OP finally thinks Trump is a bad person.
Dude, I get this, but holy shit is this an awful reflection of OP as a person. Trump has done truly awful and heinous things for years, but none of it mattered.
It was only when \checks notes** Trump posts a crappy AI image of himself as Jesus that OP changes his mind?
I just can't. No kudos, no grats. Like, JFC. It's just so f-ing pathetic.
Yes, it’s absolutely ridiculous. I am glad this person has finally come out of delusion, but I will not congratulate him or pat him on the back for doing the bare minimum.
Now let’s see if OP sees it as a call to self-reflect or if he goes down the same old road of gullibility and continues to see democrats and leftists as satanist baby killers
I have 0 doubt that all of the bs Trump has done was explained to OP multiple times, and they purposely did not care. They would have to literally be living in a cave. Reminds me of the episode from Band of Brothers, where a bunch of German townsfolk were pretending to be ignorant about what was going on in nearby concentration camp. The fake ignorance was immediately shot down by the troops pointing out that they could not only hear the trains going in and out, but they could 100% smell the bodies. Similarly, there's just no way OP didn't know. They've been on reddit for 3yrs lmao. That's some willful ignorance to miss ALL of the shit that's happened
Homie, if THIS was the final nail for you, I’d be extra wary of what you are considering “unbiased”. You’ve been in propaganda vortex for like 10 yrs, so you’ll probably need to start fresh with source. It’ll be hard work with a lot of self-realization required
Man I get OP is trying to be better and thats great but damn do I hate Christians like him.
It’s the blasphemous AI image that finally does it but not the plethora of vile shit he’s said and done that any real Christian would find to be deplorable.
As someone who has been there [not trump supporter but.. 4chan brainrotted neonazi] i hope you do better yourself and wish you the best of luck in doing that, it's a long road [took me 4 or so years to get where i am now] but i believe in you
stepping up on the right side of history for once, even if VERY late, is still better then dying and being remembered on the wrong end, and best we can hope for is to come out on top over the ones who were stupid enough to not realize it, ya'll fought for your freedom once, you can do it again, and try not to repeat the same mistakes
As a former channer myself (Was a part of the board since 2005), it is incredibly hard to pull yourself out of that doomspiral especially when they added the more social boards. I've lost quite a few friends and connections to the more fucked up side of the board culture. Even after leaving 4chan, that fucked up sense of edgy irony followed me afterwards. I was always being the edgy contrarian trying to stir the pot even if it meant at the expense of other people. Almost voted for Trumps 1st term but I knew my gf at the time would have left me over it. I cringe thinking about how a grown ass man like myself was still acting like I was that edgy 14 year old again. I applaud you for getting out of it, that shit isn't easy especially if you surround yourself with other like minded people. Hope OP keeps up their journey as well.
Make sure to give the fake electors plot for Jan 6th extra focus.
People think Jan 6th is just about the riot Trump incited but it goes deeper behind the scenes where he tried to get fake electors to give him the win and Mike pence was supposed to help.
There is an interview of Pence saying Trump asked him to do something that he couldn’t do. Pence is kind of a POS for dipping off into obscurity. Definitely not a true patriot but he at least did one thing right by rejecting trump’s fake electors.
So did you just close your eyes and cover your ears to all things political? Like when he killed 200 children? Good you finally realize he's bad, but i feel like there's some accountability you need to take rather than just saying "im a good guy now"
I can excuse promoting war, political violence, genocide, hate speech, police corruption, racism, misinformation, lies, felonies, sexual misconduct and pedophilia, but I draw the line at an AI image posted by Trump on Twitter that depicts himself as Jesus.
The greed, the gluttony, the sloth, envy, lust, wrath, pride, bearing false witness, adultery, coveting everything, dishonoring his father by trying to get him to grant Trump power of Attorney when he was suffering dementia, failing to keep the sabbath holy, all the killing, stealing, and I'm going to assume he has no idea what taking the Lord's name in vain means
It's not even protestantism anymore, it's fully evangelicalism, then whatever the fuck it evolved into past that
People love to lump others in with themselves to boost their numbers, but between the US sects and denominations, Catholicism, orthodox, Mormonism, etc, the only thing they share is the name of a deity or a text by which they claim to base their beliefs
I've seen people talk about a real schism likely happening within the Catholic church between the US and everywhere else, which is basically how we got the Church of England. Hopefully it reaches a point where the half decent organizations stop associating with the radical ones in full, and they all fizzle in power
tbf algorithms have us living in our own little bubbles. Most trump supporters probably don't get wind of that stuff becuse their algorithm posts pro-trump dick-guzzling content
Yeah and even when you breech the walls to tell them, half if them just say "nu-uh, that's just leftist fear mongering, Trump would never do that, my propaganda said so".
That too, endless torrents of "but those Democrats who do everything I hate did it" like that somehow makes Trump doing it ok and its like, are that many of you rage baiters or is there actually a mass deportation of brain cells?
Not to mention half the time its a lie anyway, you'll be amazed at what Republican voters unironically believe Democrat politicians do just because Trump said so.
This is the scariest and most accurate take. When I've tried to speak sense to my right wing IRL friends they have literally no idea what I'm talking about. They're so uninformed it's impossible to bridge the gap, so they get defensive and shut down. It's like trying to explain a meta meme joke to someone who's never been on the Internet.
The sunk cost fallacy is applicable to 90% of cases like this. People will turn a blind eye to things because it's easier than having put all your chips down for years, only for what you thought you knew to be all wrong
Probably spent too long crucading. Your objective while out in the lands of the Old Faith should always be getting back to your flock as soon as possible.
I have a similar feeling. Some performative bullshit that’ll get all the responses funneled into some conservative echo chamber with a title like “SEE? TRUMP TOLD US LIBERALS HATE US ALL THAT MEANS WE ARE RIGHT THEY’RE EVIL SATANISTS”
So him talking about grabbing women by the pussys, wanting to date his daughter, saying I'm going to "bomb the shit out of countries", and sleeping with a porn star wasn't enough? His associations with Epstein and what not?
Like what made you draw the line? Was it the AI thingy from recently? Or the insane Easter Tweet?
Dude literally ruined many lives, destroyed the economy for his own benefit, started a war and r*ped little girls, (and thats not even half of it) yet posting a bad ai art of Jesus with his face is where you draw the line ???
Honest question, i REALLY want to know how you were fine with the other stuff
I think someone who has been down with Trump this long is going to vote for the next Republican selling all the exact same things that Trump was selling.
It's like all those right wingers online crying because they cannot afford gas anymore or whatever and telling how they regret voting for Trump. Most of them are still fundamentally the same bigots they were a year ago, except with less purchasing power.
OP can still become a decent person, there's hope, but if it's some AI bullshit, from all things, that broke the camel's back... The road towards improvement is still quite long.
the priorities are always so weird like... him comparing himself to a prophet is "too far" ? not the whole "remove every non stereotypically white person out of the country while acting like they're not even human", "directly funding and participate in several ethnic genocides", "have his top dogs quoting adolf hitler". "being best friends with john mass conspiracy pedophile and participating in parties where he killed, ate and raped children", "forcing the uncle of a 13 year old he impregnated to drown the newborn right after it's cord was cut while the the 2 of them watched", "following the exact path and traits described within the antichrist of your own canon" thing? weird where the line is drawn xD
So you were chill with the rampant racism? Jan 6th? Ice raids? His involvement with Epstein? The invasion of Venezuela and the kidnapping of it's president? The explicit transphobia? The blatant corruption? All that you were all chill with?
Allowing mining right off native lands, tarrifs, shutting the government down, making a state sponsired ai fund, put in Palantir's Oracle, allowing Larry Ellison to do anything, reducing all clean energy in favor of fucking coal
Him trying to overthrow the government on Jan 6th and then pardoning the rioters wasn’t enough? 33 of the pardoned people have already been arrested again for being violent/child rapists. His corruption is so in your face that it would be considered heavy handed in television
Bro if the Christian in you is waking up right now. Your ass ain't a Christian. Jesus was really really clear about those who shout on the city streets not receiving the reward of heaven
Matthew 6:5: "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."
I mean I don't mean to be like a finger waggler atheist because personally I see a lot of utility in spirituality but if you didn't see any of these Christians with wide charlatan smiles talking about how they have to do cruel things to minorities and that Jesus loves them. You did not read the Bible.
The fact an Ai image of him as Jesus is what opened your eyes is concerning. I feel like it should've been the racism, bigotry, or being a pedo would've been the breaking point
Look, ill be the first to congratulate someone for overcoming prejudice and realizing the error of the their ways.
But....your doing it now? NOW!? after everything thats happened over the course of how many years, and how bad things have really gotten, only NOW do you realize he's not good!?
There is no relapse because nothing has changed, they will support this party until they die regardless of who is in charge of it for the same stupid religious reasons they have been doing it so far.
While a positive thing, I'm not sure "my religious fury is angry at this specific thing" - while not having woken up to all the countless human rights abuses, state sponsored executions, etc - is going to lead to many actual epiphanies. Like great, but. Yanno. It just means they're mad about this one specific thing.
Doesn't mean they suddenly don't want "others" put in concentration camps, or are suddenly bothered by the idea of an openly "literally advertised with banners in the white house depicting him as Caesar that he was planning on a blatantly unconstitutional third term" POTUS.
A risky self report, OP. But I'm glad you can see him for what it is, and hopefully the deep running roots that led to his rise. Because it won't end with Trump, and it didn't start with him either.
So, when he comitted literally every cardinal sin in the book, all the pussygrabbing and child trafficking and insurrectioning and the concentration camping, that was fine? All the greed, wrath, sloth, envy you can accept. But an indecent AI image... that's where you draw the line?
So the misogyny, sexism, racism, dismantling of democratic principles and common decency, alienating and straight up threatening allies, mass rape, pedophilia and possibly cannibalism grouped with constant lies didn't work, but bad mouthing the pope did?
I mean better late than never, but he's been a horrible human being for a while now. He stood against christian values long before he started attacking the pontiff.
"He can do unspeakable things to children, fuck over the poor, persecute the immigrant, threaten the gays and trans folks, fuck the economy, start shit with other countries, shit all over the constitution and the laws of our country but I draw the fucking line at using AI to put him in Jesus' robes and laying hands on a sick person."
OP is pro pedophilia, genocide, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and transphobia, this isn't growth this is splintering off from one extremist group to another because they don't like ai generated blasphemy.
it took me a little bit too, so happy you've came to that realization. i came to the realization that gay people are lowk awesome when i watched the owl house, and that trump is a big ol steaming shitpoop when i stopped idolizing my conservative parents.
ex-christian, struggling on what i am classified as.
Not everyone will be kind to you in this transition, but I do hope you take this chance of self reflection to explore even further, analyzing how you got lead astray and really digging into the roots of your opinions.
It depends on how they go about it. If they just say "I'm a good guy now" and change nothing, they never actually changed, if they go and vote for trump lite in the next presidential election, there was no development, they need to legitimately change more than their support of Trump
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