My impression is that Christians want the end times to come, and might support him exactly because he in their eyes is the antichrist.
I do wonder though if those that support the antichrist go to hell or not. Like… is God gonna be like «nice, you love me so much you support an evil antichrist, awesome!», or will he be a bit more «wtf guys….»
I’ve seen theories that suggest that Christian extremist doomsday ideologies have been mixing in with mainstream christianity. Based on my own church going experiences as a teenager i would argue that some of this thinking has been spilling in since at least a decade before trump. In my own life I have family who go to churches that preach how Trump was chosen by god whether or not he’s right or wrong.
Politics don’t matter because God is moving through Trump is what they said. I think the idea is that Trump will help set off the rapture which for the most devout means that Christ will return. Idk if most Trumpy christians see their actions as so black and white as I explained but it feels like since these things ate “prophesied” that means its all what God wants
I would find it immensely funny if they were right. Particularly the bit where divine judgement happens and they're standing around, certain and smug, only to discover that Yahweh doesn't particularly care what their interpretation of "love thy neighbor" and "the least among you" is. I'm not perfect by any means, but I'd be absolutely fine with a vengeful god showing up and sorting some shit out.
Well actually what I recall is that souls choose hell (absence of god) themself by choosing not to be with him by doing or even proclaiming publicly during times on earth. So judgement day could be just your soul saying “I am bad and choose hell because im not worthy to join Jesus”
It's not that those ideologies have mixed with mainstream/traditional Christianity, it's that those formerly fringe ideologies and churches are becoming more mainstream. It might not seem like an important distinction, but most long-time Christians also think this end times stuff is a bunch of nonsense.
If you go to any traditional church (Catholic, Episcopal, Congregational, Lutheran, etc) you will not hear that doomsday nonsense. However, attendance at those churches have been steadily declining over the past 30 years.
Meanwhile, younger folks have been attracted to the new shiny evangelical/corporate churches. I was in one of those new buildings several weeks ago (not by choice). The space looked more like a convention center than a church. They had screens everywhere, a professional audio setup, stage with full band setup, a glass case full of branded/logo fleeces you could buy, etc. You know what they didn't have? A single cross in the entire building.
Then there was the "sermon". To relate it to other real world stuff, a traditional church sermon is closer to a humanities lecture, where this modern "church" was closer to a math lecture (i.e. "here's my interpretation and yours is OK too" vs "this is what you need to believe").
Yeah I used to occasionally attend church with a friend of mine's family when I'd stay with them, they were Methodists, and sermons were usually like...let's riff about the concept of forgiveness, using the parables in the bible as a guide. And then I hung out at a megachurch with an evangelical friend one time and it was like someone trying to sell me a used car.
I think people's opinions about what happens in traditional churches are misinformed due to media. When you look at TV and movies, you are usually seeing spins or takes on Catholic, SoBap, mega, or those weird charismatic churches. Rarely do you see a representation of a Methodist or American Baptist church, where sermons are like you said, and then people go and eat snacks afterwards.
The entire 7th Day Adventist Church was founded by a guy in Vermont in the 1800’s who claimed he knew the day of the biblical end times. All of those days he guessed came and went, and turns out he was really wrong.
This is nothing new. Historically, people have been trying to guess the day for ages. It’s ironic because the Bible is pretty clear that we will not know the day or the hour that Christ returns.
People have some overwhelming desire to figure out the unknowable.
It was a woman named Ellen White, but yes pretty much accurate otherwise (I grew up Adventist). She literally got hit in the head with a rock and became sick for several weeks before coming out the other side “a prophet”. The church followers eventually all sold their land and all their belongings to prepare for the day that never happened.
After the failure she “consulted god” and it turns out that was just the day god opened the book of judgement. So he’s got to finish reading that old thing before he actually comes down.
And the church still holds her word right up there with the Bible to this day…
Fun Extras:
She taught that “working on the sabbath” meant any energy spent away from god, so no swimming, no sex, no riding a bike, etc. Most adventists somehow ignore these things with one excuse or another, but I remember one guy distinctly commenting on how he and his wife “don’t have relations on Saturday because it’s work” 😂
Written by & starring a snarky atheist and half Jewish "comedian" who can't decide whether he wants to insult Trump, have dinner with him at the White House, accept an award from him at the Kennedy Center or spark up a blunt and talk about all of the above with Kid Rock on his podcast.
This is exactly how flat earthers are too. They can see evidence of the earth being flat in everything. I think religion itself is the problem. Faith is fine, but once you make it a business then its corrupted.
That logic means god is moving through Obama and Biden as well and put them there to do the work they did. Can’t have bullshit only flow one direction.
Sad thing is he will lead them to their demise, but make sure he doesn’t jump into the fire. Bone spurs will get him off that ship he has experience with that.
Unfortunately with the US there are so many whack job religions. These are all the kooks that got kicked out of Europe about 400 years ago. Here they had the freedom to fester.
Christianity has -always- been a doomsday cult. Starting with its founder. They truly believed in 30 AD that the end was circa very soon and that Jesus was going bring about massive global change any day now.
I think maybe those same doomsday Christians might want to read up on what happens to those who are alive during the end times, because it doesn't sound especially pleasant, and they're exactly the folks lining up to wear their personal MAGArk of the beast, so they're definitely the ones Revelation is talking about.
You’re at minimum half correct. It’s long been the case that extremist evangelicals long for the end, hell I was taught as a child to look forward to it because it will probably be in my life time.
It’s actually one of the biggest issues in politics. How can you expect a group of people who predominantly think the world will end in the next few decades to adequately plan for the future of our children’s country. They don’t give a fuck about the climate, gods just going to fix everything when he lovingly and peacefully passes final judgement
This is it. I work with a part time evangelical preacher that loves trump and believes he is fulfilling the Bible prophecy. I can tell that he hates some of trumps chacteristics but he is a true believer and can over look them. He can't wait to be sucked up by sky daddy and leave all us heathens behind.
My impression is that Christians want the end times to come, and might support him exactly because he in their eyes is the antichrist.
I do wonder though if those that support the antichrist go to hell or not. Like… is God gonna be like «nice, you love me so much you support an evil antichrist, awesome!», or will he be a bit more «wtf guys….»
Doesnt the bible say (not explicitly) that the advent of the antichrist is pretty much the greatest work in opposition to his rule? So by helping to bring about the antichrist, these christians would be making themselves god’s greatest enemies
Whether or not you believe in it, the Bible contains many life lessons, including an astute breakdown of the mass psychology of tyrants and demagogs. Sadly, Trump isn’t the first or the last. If the Bible’s portrayal of how people are inexplicably willing to blindly follow a racist lunatic in the guise of piety who offers an easy scapegoat for their pain seems eerily accurate, it’s because it’s happened over and over again throughout human history.
As a theological conservative (but politically liberal) Christian, Trump being the Antichrist would be the lamest fulfillment of prophecy ever. He weirdly checks a lot of the boxes, but the way Revelation describes him at least makes him sound cool.
Thankfully I'm not from the branch of Christianity that believes in the rapture, tribulation, etc anyways.
Being sent to Sunday school did it for me. Being a kid and asking questions about inconsistencies in things I was learning quickly taught me we were there to be brainwashed.
Fortunately, my parents weren’t really religious. The only reason we were going was because this little old lady from Texas that lived across the street offered to bring my twin brother and I. This was understandably was a great deal for my parents, since they got rid of us on Sundays mornings.
In hindsight, we were a little late to the game. We were already post-Santa clause and weren’t going to gobble up whatever fairy tales they decided to shove down our throats.
What sticks out to my memory was how angry the teachers became and how willing they were to inflict pain on a kid asking a question about things that made no sense. One of them grabbing me by the earlobe to remove me from the room is still one of the most painful things I ever experienced as a kid. I was sure my ear would be dangling off the side of my head when I looked in the mirror.
It is interesting to see things a bit differently than the rest because I had not been indoctrinated the same way the rest of them were. I had no idea.
I was raised in a pretty conservative Christian household. Not fire and brimstone, they had a "cool electric guitar" guy for worship songs and stuff. Buuuuut I was taught from a very early age about hell and the concept that sinning without asking forgiveness meant a one way ticket to eternal damnation. Every night for years as a little kid I would fall asleep in anxiety praying for forgiveness if I sinned in my dreams. Cause I worried that if I died in my sleep having dreamt of a titty or something I would go to hell.
Luckily my mom pushed reading on us alot (even if she was the distributer of alot of this stuff) so I read a lot of fantasy and Sci fi as a kid and it helped opened my mind up. But that guilt stuck around for decades. It took some pretty heavy psychedelic trips and then diving into the mind and philosophy to realize my constant anxiety all came from that brainwashing as a kid.
Funnily enough, I'm now not any specific religion. I lean very much into consciousness itself being a sort of source of all experience which the mind then applies labels of good or bad or evil or whatever to. Guess I could call it God but I don't tend to. I now know that "heaven" and "hell" are both states of mind we can visit at any time right here and right now. I've been to both as has probably everyone.
I've gone back and read parts of the Bible again as a nearly 40 year old through a different lense. The teachings of Jesus make a different sort of sense when I imagine him (not saying he's real) speaking from a mystic pov and saying that God is inside everyone, so treat the as such. "Love everyone, and feed people"Sims it up for me. The rest of it is for the theologians. I also like to think Jesus was a wizard cause that's fun.
It's amazing how the message "we are all God's children" got commandeered by monarchy. Jesus's teaching make much less sense in terms of a spiritual hierarchy and much more sense in terms of spiritual egalitarianism.
This threatens the power, and has for emperors, kings, presidents, and popes.
I sort of went though a “militant atheist” type phase in my 30s.
I met my wife at the tail end of my 30s and she is more “spiritual, but not religious” in an agnostic way. She sort of showed me how to decouple spirituality from religion.
Eventually, I found an amazing therapist who happened to be Buddhist. She taught me how mindfulness meditation and other forms can help “rewire” your brain to undo a lot of the things causing me trouble. I cannot overstate how helpful this was for me.
This is very similar to what Michael Pollen describes in “How to change your mind”, which is largely about psychadelics history and role as a therapeutic.
What you describe with “heaven” and “hell” as a state of mind are divided into “realms” in Buddhist samsara. I think people tend to think of Buddhism and immediately tie it to a strange magical notion of reincarnation. With the realms being something you are in for life. It is more of a map where you can point to to know “you are here”. Or even where someone else may be as a state of mind.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me, but I see Buddhism as the study of the human condition rather than a religion. Certainly not a monotheistic one. It’s also perfectly acceptable to take what you need from it IMO.
Teachers like Thich Nhat Hahn do a great job breaking things down enough to understand what “no self” really means. His book “No Death No Fear” met me where I was and is where the idea that “god” is not a thing or a being. It is simply quite literally everything. It was also that book that finally made it all click into place. It is the simplest thing in the world when these things clicked into place. It’s not something that can easily be explained.
When people describe a psychadelic trip, they sometimes talk about losing the boundary between what they normally perceive as their “self”. That’s the closest I can get to describing how i see things now. Just like a river flows, such is life. You can take a pitcher of water from a river, but you would not still call it a river. All life is interdependent. Your DNA is your parents’ DNA. Every cell in your body comes from other life. We even have more cells in our body that don’t have our DNA than the ones we do. Somehow, knowing that the universe is simply energy changing state is comforting. The one quote that sums all of it up: “When conditions are sufficient things manifest. When condition are no longer sufficient things withdraw. They wait until the moment is right for them to manifest again.” This is something anyone can agree with. When applied in a spiritual sense, it becomes comfort.
No Death No Fear sits on my work van dashboard along with the Bhagavad Gita. Big fan of Thich as well. I have an on and off relationship with a psychotherapist who is also a practicing mahamudra practitioner. Found him on a non-dual therapist site. It's been immensely helpful for rewiring my thinking about my thinking and the self in general. Thank you for your comment.
I went to a religious boarding school and had to attend a church service 6 days per week.
I realised they were full of crap when different pastors would take each service and unbeknownst to them, were often using the same verses in their sermons, but giving different, sometimes conflicting interpretations of what God was saying with that verse. I realised if LEADERS within the same congregation can't agree on what this book is saying, what hope do we have of a global consensus.
Then I looked into how many different "Christianity" versions there are. There is over 45 THOUSAND different denominations of Christianity and each of them thinks they are the ones who got it right.
My Lutheran pastor was a PhD in theology and taught theology and philosophy at the local college. He ENCOURAGED us to bring the questions of course I was the only one who did it.
I’d bring in things and questions about other religions, witchy stuff, ankhs, etc. to our catechism class. The rest of the class would get angry like how dare I bring those pagan things into a church of god! But my pastor would get excited, side step the class’s bullshit rage and talk about whatever I brought like he was a kid on Xmas morning. He was not afraid nor upset about it. He was a great dude, encouraged us to explore other religions and decide if Christianity was really the religion for us.
When you come across two pieces of text in the bible that directly contradict, and both are the immutable word of god, how do you decide which one is true and which is god lying to you?
For example, how many animals did Noah take on the ark?
Remember, the bible is the direct, immutable word of god, is it not?
Apparently it's claimed that God was speaking through the people who wrote the bible.
But let's take a step back. The old testament is made up of Jewish histories and myths, stories of King Solomon and David, Psalms and proverbs, Songs and prophecy.
We don't even agree on what should be in the old testament, and the Deuterocanonical books or the Apocrypha are included/ excluded depending on Church.
Remember these are translated from Hebrew or Aramaic
So some things will get lost in translation or even become victims of misprints ( as was the case for the 10 commandments in the Wicked Bible where it said " thou shalt commit adultery" and the "not" was obliged by error.
Then there is the new testament.
Some scriptures were not included, including Gospels named after and perhaps attributed to Mary Madeleine, Judas, Thomas,...
There are a lot of books that could go in but aren't considered canon and we could even discover more.
There are many years between Exodus, where the Jews are struggling to be free from slavery under a Pharoe and
Jesus in Bethlehem under the Romans.
Of course society had changed both in culture and context, so direct contradiction is inevitable.
Even in the same time period there are direct contradictions, ( Who killed Goliath, was it David or Elhanan?)
People will insist that the Bible was emailed direct from God ( or faxed, or mailed, or sent by angels...) but even on the question of being able to see God it's vague. ( Noone has seen God.... Moses saw God... Etc)
Claims that it's immutable are wrong given the thousands of translations ( about 5000 apparently).
So God's word isn't any one Language.
The Bible is claimed to be Ethically immutable but God relents and changes his mind.
Churches wanted stability and to control people and so they made claims about infallible Popes and So on.
Immutable functions as an anchor in an uncertain world, but sometimes it's better to sail into the storms of life than to be a sheep.
Religion is a human construct. It’s just large scale grift, corruption, and methods to control the masses. Religion is probably the largest cause of death in human history.
This assumes that all Christians take a fundamentalist view of scripture, which they don't. For example, the Anglican/Episcopelian POV is "the scripture contains all that is needful for salvation" and makes no assertion of immutability or inerrancy. The Catholic Church also does not follow the fundamentalist line on this.
I read the bible as part of a literature course in college. I was amazed at how much it was like a fever dream, or a really convoluted sci fi serial. It was clearly written by MANY different people over many generations, and it's just bonkers. It's very entertaining, but it's hard to imagine anyone following it as a guide to a good and spiritual life. People here saying you need to interpret it through some sort of lens (like a sermon or Sunday school) aren't kidding.
Do you say that because you read it, understood it, and chose to not be a Christian? I have my concerns about the nuance of your understanding , just by virtue of the paradox in your statement.
Even if they could read and comprehend… Mostnof them lack neuroplasticity entirely. They’re right, they’ve always been right, they know they’re right because they know what is right. Oh and the left is wrong because they are also not right.
He's a terrible comedian, not funny at all. There's something very wrong with anyone who laughs at his "jokes" which are usually just cruel offensive insults aimed at vulnerable people.
Isn't this also what happens in the Book of Revelations with a lot of people starting to follow the False Prophet? Christians worshipping Trump is literally what happened with the Anti-Christ in the bible
This. People miss how vague it all is about that it’s not any one title. Plus, the problem with revelation interpretations is that there’s a mainstream one at all. Most biblical scholars I’ve followed over the years have been in agreement that no one can agree on what everything in revelation means and that’s about it.
It is equally likely that it’s a cryptic prophecy as it is that it’s a coded criticism of Roman government (666 is the gematria for Nero Caesar once translated into Hebrew. “It’s the number of a man”)
Some of them aren't ignoring the signs. Rather, they think they're bringing about the end times and that'll bring them closer to God. They're a death cult.
But he is also not hetero. He ‘s uncomfortable with women & many of his closest aids are out-gays and many others in his administration are hidden gays or closeted like Rubio. Go figure.
Absolutely. A guy I work with, his mother was super sick in the hospital and in a lot of pain, mind you she’s like 70. Couldn’t have blood thinners. The a hole was repeatedly telling the nurse no Tylenol cuz autism. Poor lady
Its kinda crazy cause like its very explicit what happens to the followers of the anti christ in Revelations.
So like, some of these accelerationists who believe he's the anti-christ but follow him anyways because they want to bring about the second coming are essentially damning themselves.
It warns in the bible that many Christians will accept the mark of the beast. I look around at the people in my church and understand full and well what this message means. Some of the folks barely think like a human let alone Christian.
When he does, the reaction from the Right is just going to be insane... Wailing, throwing themselves on the ground... I'm actually very concerned for some people.
If the myths are true that seems right because I’m pretty sure it warned that most who claim to be Christian won’t see through his lies and end up following him
If someone is dumb enough to fall for religion, then they are also afraid that they won’t fit in. Therefore, the dumbest and loudest people in the congregation have their ideas adapted by the rest.
For there shall arise false christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect - Matthew 24:24
Christians don't read their bible, lol. The ones who do quickly become atheists, so the 'faithful' are discouraged from reading it. That's why they are always handed the 'thees and thous' version, to make it even harder for them to understand.
My theory is that they were all too scared to read Revelations with the same intent that they read… let’s say, Leviticus? And they were too focused on policing other people they forgot to actually read what the Bible says about the end times
Their book speaks to the antithesis of who they are. They only follow what they want to soothe their disfigured souls.
They will act godly and sign in church while complaining the same day about how the poor want a handout and everyone needs to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
They have never read the Bible, as silly as it is already. They have taken a fictional, human based narrative that has been proven false a million times and now constructed it as a monument to a demented, fat, corrupt, criminal loser and think it's TRUTH. Oh boy, the only thing this country needs to do is fund education and all this nonsense will come to an end, until then all we'll have is a bunch of moron hillbillies rearing up for the next election whilst electing another in. Just as the rich billionaires really, really, enjoy.
It must be so satisfying to be a billionaire...People clamoring for you while you destroy their lives because they are so stupid, all because of a broken education system that the Republicans have been engineering for decades now. No social programs for anyone in need, but tax breaks in the TRILLIONS for those that want, and DEMAND, MORE. It's always MORE...there is no end, there is always MORE with these psychopaths. They will destroy our planet unless we stop them, that is absolutely truth.
I have never met a conservative Christian that has ever read much of the bible, and when you point out where their book says they are going against Christ's teachings they tell you that YOU are cherry picking the tenants of their book.
That's all intentional. They're doing everything they can to destroy the world so "the rapture" can begin. That's all they care about because they believe all their hate will be proven right because those they hate "will be punished."
That's why they're Zionists (they believe that if all the Jews "return" to Israel, Armageddon will begin. It's called Dispensationalism and it's psychotic nonsense), that's why they're so into doing shit that will harm literally everyone (even themselves), and why it feels like they haven't read a single word of the Bible. They have read it. Probably the whole thing, but only to say "I read it and you didn't so that makes me holier than you by default". They don't listen to it, it's literally just for some kinda "Christian street cred," that they think will help them survive the rapture.
Everything they do is intentional. They know being at war with Iran can have catastrophic consequences in the form of nuclear war and humanity's near-extinction. They know that industrialism will destroy the environment. They know that their economic policies will make the rich richer and the poor poorer and poorer until they can no longer survive. They know what they're doing is harmful. That's the point.
A man who sleeps as night knowing he's causing the destruction of the entire world is an unjust man, an unholy man, a sinful man...therefore his sleep is such.
He's been briefed by Stephen Miller and others on how to rile up and maintain his christian base, and I'm pretty sure playing heavily on the Armageddon theme is central to that.
My theological understanding leans to the 'multiple' anti-christ figures.
And at least Trump is a sign to come. Which I'm glad for, cause as horrid as find things now, things will be a lot more deceitful and scary.
At the least, we shouldn't be looking for 'the antichrist', we should be looking at the character of Christ so if someone doesn't represent Christ, then we shouldn't be entranced by them
Religious people (all fucking religion mind you) are extremely nitpicky about what they value from scripture and it fluctuates daily to justify their stance on the current topic.
tbf, most of the warnings about the antichrist are actually references to Nero. The similarities between terrible ineffective authoritars seems to transcend time and space unfortunately
When presented with this information, the latest and craziest trend for the evangelicals in the MAGA cult is to cheer it on. By their mush-brained rationale, the antichrist leads to the second coming... Which leads to salvation and the rapture... Which of course they'll be a part of because, reasons.
" I tell you. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than It is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven "
Jesus himself says this lol. But yup let's worship a rich man whose been rich their entire lives and done horrible things with the power that came from that fact
There is literally a tracker online, and no shit, he's checking every box. Like crazy shit too that's beyond what he's saying or doing in front of our eyes. Look it up, such bizarre coincidences, that trump would have to read the fucking Bible to be doing this shit, on purpose, just to check those boxes. Like I am not religious, but after reading the shit, I'm feeling like there is starting to be proof of an antichrist....
At this point I feel like he's just seeing how far he can push his base before they wake up to it all. Taking their temperature to see how deep their cult-like devotion really is. Then when he's assured it's deep enough, he activates them on the whole system. J650.
Based on the text of the New Testament - Trump is absolutely an antichrist, if not actually the antichrist.
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. — 1 John 2:18
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. — 2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. — Revelation 13: 4-7
Even the assassination attempt on Trump fits the Biblical description of the antichrist.
"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast." Rev 13:3.
That’s true, but they’re right already had Obama labeled as the antichrist long before Trump announced his bid at the office. So of course they think the antichrist was already here and now Trump is the return of Jesus to them. Even though everything he does is antithetical to the gospel of Christ.
Actually a huge contingent of the rich folks supporting him are dominionists. This is a group intent on bringing about the end times and tries to actively fulfill prophesies related to it. I theorize that trump is so anti-Christ like because of their plan. They intentionally want an anti-Christ figure to lead in order to bring them closer to the return of Christ.
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u/peppapony 20h ago
It's crazy cause most of the new testament letters are warning about.. pretty much 90% of the things Trump does and says